Thanks Day, very cool!

[BerenTebogo]

The thing about statistics is that the avid statistician can make the same data set say completely contradictory things depending on the method of analysis used. One could do a deep dive and get into the nitty gritty of what is really behind the for-or-against arguments on the data for the wage gap, but I don't have the time or energy, and most of you wouldn't understand anyway (this isn't meant to be derogatory, just factual). How you cut, sort, and qualify any large data set matters exactly as much as whatever data is in the set.

That said, the statistics quoted aren't the point here. You want to say that, statistically, there isn't a M-F wage gap? Fine. One failing of statistics is that they often use a wide brush to paint over fine lines. Much of the problem is field-specific, and as Day said off-hand, not really suited to incorporate the disparity in the number of male vs. female sewer contractors, for example. The choice of which field you enter, whether for reasons of financial need, societal circumstance, or other, is certainly one consideration and it is true that there is a (lessening) disparity between the M-F population and hard labor jobs.

The fundamental issue being argued by proponents of the existence of the wage gap is that the gap exists between equally qualified employees, and employees of the same rank within the same institution, being disparaged because of gender, race, religion, and various other factors, in a way that skirts the legal definitions. Corporate regulations that prevent discussion of salary between employees at the risk of being fired was (is?) historically a good example of how this discrimination is maintained.

To pretend that this issue can be boiled down to shitty, pandering news articles written for an audience with no appetite for a true understanding (on both sides, don't misunderstand me here) is totally disingenuous and laughable. Statistics are an incredibly powerful tool that can be wielded largely with impunity. After all, how many are really going to be able to challenge the results on a fundamental level, and how many are really interested in reading the academic debates that follow when they've already digested the initial headline that conforms to their bias.

tl;dr don't be shitty on extremely complex issues guiz

[Day]

tl;dr don't be shitty on extremely complex issues guiz

[Gredival]

Asians are like jews: considered white by the marginalized groups when it suits their agenda.

In America, Asians were propped up as the model minority because they reversed the trend of being really racist regarding Asian immigration (see the Chinese exclusion act) by admitting a ton of Asians that were supremely desirable. Because white people couldn't distinguish between the socioeconomically disadvantaged Chinese people that were here already building railroads and the ones we let in because they had degrees, it created this perception that Asian success was because they successfully bootstrapped themselves up and not because there was an entire generation of Asians with monetary and educational advantages imported in.

This perception subsequently became 1) an excuse not to fix the state for other minorities because it couldn't be that unfair if the Asians made it, and 2) the basis for the false perception among Asians that they didn't face discrimination convincing them that they needed to be against socioeconomic equality because they would stand to lose than they would gain.

The fact that the over-enrollment of Asians in college all stems from Empire East Asian populations and not third world poor SEA populations proves the second point. If you clean your data to filter for economics and not just race, Asians are no more represented in schools than their income vs. their representation in the locality.

[BerenTebogo]

Here's some examples, completely independent of the issue at hand:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3305783/ -- Fold change and p-value cutoffs significantly alter microarray interpretations

Conclusions

Our analyses suggest that based on the chosen statistical or fold change cut-off; microarray analysis can provide essentially more than one answer, implying data interpretation as more of an art than a science, with follow up gene expression studies a must. Furthermore, gene chip annotation and development needs to maintain pace with not only new genomes being sequenced but also novel genes that are crucial to the overall gene chips interpretation.

https://ncss-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com...f_Analysis.pdf - discussion of cutoff and filtering criteria to balance trade-off between false positives and false negatives in data analysis

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5082211/ -- On determining the most appropriate test cut-off value: the case of tests with continuous results

https://www.cs.colostate.edu/pubserv...ins_iccv01.pdf -- Feature Selection from Huge Feature Sets -- Application to image processing algorithms

You'll note that, while a different application of the methods, this is incredibly important in medical fields where people literally live or die based on how confidence levels are set in testing.

[BerenTebogo]

tl;dr one of the easiest ways that even the novice user can manipulate the results of a data set is in the choice of bin width, cut-off points, and filtering of data into appropriate bins by manipulation of selection criteria

and then the discussion gets way more complex if you want to do real shit

[Gredival]

Im pretty sure employers havent wanted employees talking about their wage back before women even held jobs, i wasnt born though so im like 80.5% certain.

It's almost as if tools used to keep white males underpaid can also be used to keep other people underpaid as well. You know as long as you consider, for just a second, that people other than straight white men might be victims.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[BerenTebogo]

gdi guys this isn't me doing work

i'm literally shitposting on here instead of rewriting our code that tracks accrued momentum on the spacecraft per orbit to use a new rolling average because my head has been in the clouds all week and i can't think straight

i think i'm not sleeping enough

[Day]

get back to work, that wage isn't going to gap itself

[Demosthenes]

Statistician here, the folks saying it doesn't exist are wrong as fuck. You could literally just box plot it without doing a deep dive and it would tell you exactly that. You plug that shit into SAS: EM and it'll laugh at you. The problem is shitloads of statisticians are shit at bias. I met a "statistician" the other day that could do a lot of fancy shit, but couldn't square how hypothesis testing works. Like, if you don't know where the .05 is supposed to go when measuring p values to H, how the fuck are you reading your results?

[Zetanio]

what's the actual like for like wage gap?

Last data I saw said it was 7% or so.

That being said, denying it exists at all is fucking retarded. shit needs to get fixed. girls are p kewl.

[Demosthenes]

Incidentally, I did some diving into Framingham data set a few years back. Dudes are more likely to die from heart disease than women, but LMAO there was a massive correlation between smoking, drinking etc which less women did. Shockingly, the data did not show a link between cholesterol and heart disease.

[Zetanio]

i have an interview in like an hour and all i'm thinking about is shitposting and the wage gap.

am i woke now?

[Fondue]

Betting on basketball games doesn't make you a statistician

[NynJa]

what's the actual like for like wage gap?

Last data I saw said it was 7% or so.

That being said, denying it exists at all is fucking retarded. shit needs to get fixed. girls are p kewl.

Theres a smidge of a difference between 93 cents per dollar and 70 cents per dollar, as is being often parroted still.

Also, another crux of the wage gap is “shit marketed to women costs more”...just dont buy it?!?

[Demosthenes]

Betting on basketball games doesn't make you a statistician

[Demosthenes]

Theres a smidge of a difference between 93 cents per dollar and 70 cents per dollar, as is being often parroted still.

Also, another crux of the wage gap is “shit marketed to women costs more”...just dont buy it?!?

Wew

[tyven]

asian men are fucking killin it

Disciprine

[Zetanio]

Theres a smidge of a difference between 93 cents per dollar and 70 cents per dollar, as is being often parroted still.

Also, another crux of the wage gap is “shit marketed to women costs more”...just dont buy it?!?

you're trying too hard and it's showing.

[BerenTebogo]

Demo is like a level of stats worker that go above and beyond my understanding of the math and those aren’t words I have cause to say often outside of group theory and weird algebras

[NynJa]

you're trying too hard and it's showing.

Not really
Im working on converting a login drive mapping script to gpo.
Its pretty boring