Gamer/Consumer Rights curiosities...

[Greatguardian]

That wouldnt really matter if GoG went under though

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GoG Galaxy isn't a DRM platform. It's just a launcher and updater. You can run every single one of your GoG games from their install locations without ever connecting to GoG servers to verify anything. GoG can go under and you'll still have all your games on your physical drive in their entirety forever.

[Greatguardian]

With that said, you know exactly what you're buying when you buy a steam version of a game. It's one thing when ebookstores tell your grandmother that they need to refund her and take away all her books because computer reasons and another when millennial gamers pretend to be blindsided by common practice.

If you're not prepared to pay MSRP for a game that may disappear from your library in six months, for Pete's sake don't buy it. If a game is being sold on GoG or by another vendor without DRM, buy it there. If not, just go without. If you're actually addicted to video gaming, seek therapy. Real talk. It'll save your life.

[Salodin]

Quite commonly, frustration.

I'm gonna call this out as a bald face lie, because by far most commonly all you get is immense ease of access to a vastly less expensive, and more expansive, library of games easily accessible from anywhere in the world where there is even shitty internet, without the need to lug around different physical media.

That's what you get when you go digital. There are cons of course, cons I've never experienced even though I've experienced by far more lost/scratched CDs, dead cart batteries, etc, with physical media.

Steam is by far the most wildly successful publisher in video game history, and people are talking like it somehow should be excluded as an example even though it is prone to all the misgivings yall have with digital distribution.

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[Greatguardian]

Digital Distribution and Digital Rights Management are not the same thing.

GoG is a Digital Distribution platform without Digital Rights Management. You buy a game, they let you download the full installer. You can even put it on a flash drive or DVD for safe keeping.

Steam is a Digital Distribution platform with Digital Rights Management. You buy a game, they install the game with a listener that periodically checks to verify the last time you've successfully logged into the Steam servers with the associated Steam account and eventually locks you out of your games if it doesn't get a green light from them.

With Steam, if Valve goes under tomorrow and shuts down everything, your games are gone after a few months.

With GoG, if GoG goes under tomorrow and shuts down everything, you lose one form of cloud backup for your games and are otherwise just fine.

[Salodin]

If you want both a digital version and physical, the best of both worlds, then imo you gotta pay for it. I say that's unreasonable when you consider the costs of putting together and shipping physical media, compared to the completely different infrastructure and costs of maintaining servers to hold games ready to download. I wouldnt reasonably expect a company or publisher to bear the costs of both distribution platforms for the same price. Hell, the only reason we see such deals on digital platforms like Steam is because of the cost savings of going all digital. That's the consumer benefit right there.

If GoG goes under, and your hard drive dies, then you're in the same boat. If you're worried about having to connect to a drm sever for verification every month, then that's fair, but it's no big deal for me or the majority of people. Even a biweekly check in is not much to ask for, if all you have to do is log into the platform once in that period. I cant imagine a scenario where I want to game on my gaming PC, but have zero access to internet for a month long. If I'm in a no internet situation, I'm probably in a no PC gaming situation as well lol.

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[Greatguardian]

Like bro. Even I think viewing DRM as a consumer rights issue is retarded, but you act like you're literally incapable of separating the two ideas in your head.

Digital distribution and digital rights management are not the same thing. Repeat twenty times because ten isn't enough for you. You don't need one to have the other. Physical media can have DRM and digital media can exist without DRM.

"Digital distribution is great therefore suck it up losers DRM is forever" is a dumb stance.

[Salodin]

I literally said that and explained in my post that you didnt read. I separated the issue, gave a magic solution for each, and explained how unrealistic it is to expect the low prices we enjoy on many digital platforms and expect the security you feel when you buy physical media. You'll probably just ignore this post too, but w/e.

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[Fondue]

are they giving full refunds for the stuff they're deleting?

[Salodin]

They should have bought all their books on steam

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[Greatguardian]

I literally said that and explained in my post that you didnt read. I separated the issue, gave a magic solution for each, and explained how unrealistic it is to expect the low prices we enjoy on many digital platforms and expect the security you feel when you buy physical media. You'll probably just ignore this post too, but w/e.

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Like, you're just not getting it. There are no cost savings involved in using DRM. In fact, it's significantly more expensive for a publisher to ship a product digitally with DRM than digitally without DRM. That's because the DRM itself is typically a product that the publisher is purchasing from another company (see: Denuvo).

You have magically intertwined two completely unrelated things in your head.

Digitally distributed goods without DRM can be safely transferred to physical media client-side as a data backup. You can throw GOG installers on USB drives and DVDs as backups. GOG doesn't have to print CDs and distribute them physically to you in order for a client to have physical backups of their purchases.

[Greatguardian]

how unrealistic it is to expect the low prices we enjoy on many digital platforms and expect the security you feel when you buy physical media.

This is literally what we have with GoG right this very second. It exists. It is a not-insignificant portion of the marketplace.

[Byrthnoth]

Do I own my Steam games tho?

[Salodin]

GoG is good, but nowhere near Steam good in terms of deals. Also as evidenced above, their update schedules arent as consistent as steam. They also dont carry every single game steam does, but they do carry the big hitters so that isnt as bad as it sounds.

I concede however that I am not familiar with GoG because I have Steam and an internet connection. And steam is better.

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[Salodin]

Like, you're just not getting it. There are no cost savings involved in using DRM. In fact, it's significantly more expensive for a publisher to ship a product digitally with DRM than digitally without DRM. That's because the DRM itself is typically a product that the publisher is purchasing from another company (see: Denuvo).

You have magically intertwined two completely unrelated things in your head.

Digitally distributed goods without DRM can be safely transferred to physical media client-side as a data backup. You can throw GOG installers on USB drives and DVDs as backups. GOG doesn't have to print CDs and distribute them physically to you in order for a client to have physical backups of their purchases.

I think its unrealistic to expect developers of any medium to just ignore protection of their product. I expect it, and expect it to be unintrusive. Denovo is bad for many reasons, mainly cause it hits performance even if they say they fixed that. Asking me to log into the platform once a month or even biweekly is not a big ask, if in exchange I never have to worry about long term storage.

Of course, this only works if they never go under. I'm confident big names like Epic and Steam are perfectly fine.

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[Salodin]

Also, if you want everyone to be GoG then just stay with GoG. An offline installer doesnt really appeal to me, because it's the same issue I have with physical media. The whole point is for me to go digital and remove the limits of keeping the local copy around at all times. If you're afraid of losing access cause a company goes under, then you have GoG or your local gamestop for all your needs.

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[Greatguardian]

Do I own my Steam games tho?

You own a fixed period no-cost renewable license to a game which Steam automatically renews in the background every time you log in.

I think its unrealistic to expect developers of any medium to just ignore protection of their product. I expect it, and expect it to be unintrusive. Denovo is bad for many reasons, mainly cause it hits performance even if they say they fixed that. Asking me to log into the platform once a month or even biweekly is not a big ask, if in exchange I never have to worry about long term storage.

Of course, this only works if they never go under. I'm confident big names like Epic and Steam are perfectly fine.

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The Witcher 3 sold more units on GOG (despite there theoretically only ever being a need for one person on the planet to buy a copy which can then be shared with everyone else) than on Steam and all other media combined.

The eBookstore that just went under was run by literally too big to fail Microsoft.

I don't particularly give a fuck where people buy their games. Personally, I buy plenty on Steam even though I know I'm only really buying a license subject to periodic renewal. People who aren't comfortable with those terms can absolutely just buy things in other venues, though. If a product isn't available in a venue you're comfortable purchasing in, just don't fucking buy it. It's really not that hard.

With all of that said, thinking DRM is somehow intrinsically tied to DD is still a really bad take. Attempting to justify your stance with "common sense" doesn't really work when alternatives not only exist but are a real portion of the marketplace. Imagine not knowing that credit unions exist and insisting that people shut up and take whatever terms big banks offer them. That is how you sound right now.

[Byrthnoth]

You own a fixed period no-cost renewable license to a game which Steam automatically renews in the background every time you log in.

Interesting and spooky! So if Steam folds my games poof when the license expires?

[Greatguardian]

Interesting and spooky! So if Steam folds my games poof when the license expires?

Yeah. If you go a long enough period of time (two weeks rn) without logging in, you lose the ability to run the games. Edit: It seems there are some Devs/Pubs who opt out of Steam DRM but they are not the majority.