[SPOILERS] Star Wars: Episode IX: The Rise of Spoilers

[Ksandra]

Yall cant complain about Leia in TLJ and not go wtf at her dying to force projection just to say her son's name

To be fair, everything about Leia gets a pass as they didn't expect Carrie Fisher to die when filming these movies. Changes had to be made. It makes sense that the plan was to have her turn Ben, not Han. But they probably figured they needed her to die as an homage to Fisher.

causing him to undo two movies of being a dick and suddenly becoming a good guy.

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Not completely true. Rewatch 8. He helps Rey, remember?


Don't get me wrong, I think they could have done a better job with it. But clearly he was already in conflict way before this due to feelings for her.

[Salodin]

Yeah, he helped rey, and right after that the movie ends with him going full dark side, trying to kill the rebels and luke (and rey if he could catch her). He was full bad guy by the end of TLJ, and full covert good guy in this one from the get go. He even fools his own knights of ren the entire time, until stabbing them in the back at the end of TROS.

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[Serra]

That feels like another thing that happened in 8 that got thrown out in 9 though. Johnson did a lot to set Kylo up not to be redeemed (there's a whole discussion about Luke giving up on Ben when he didn't give up on Vader, but..). Ben helps Rey, but that was to remove Snoke and take over the First Order. Which was then followed by Luke saying he couldn't save Ben and Leia saying she knew.

All that said, I heard someone say Rey should have stayed dead as she would have been the example of the sacrifice a Jedi makes to complete Ben's turn back to the light. And it would have been a use of the title that actually made sense.

one of the worst failures of the sequel trilogy was certainly the subversion / resubversion of the differing creative teams. the conflict between the alternate artistic visions produced a clusterfuck in themes plot and character arcs.

I stand by that not having a plan from the start was the biggest weakness of this trilogy. They didn't need a script for all three films before they started, but they should have, at a minimum, known what the ending was before they started.

[Tyrath]

^ I think that's something everyone can agree with.

[Draylo]

A bunch of old fucks complaining about Star Wars not being the SW they want it to be (which is this thread and TLJ thread) is the epitome of being salty as fuck.

Bunch of old fucks, I'm still in my 20's and I thought these movies were GARBAGE. My niece and nephew thought the movies were garbage and lame. I don't see how age has anything to do with being qualified to dislike a film.

[Xno Kappa]

TLJ could’ve been redeemed if Rey joined Kylo with his offer to abandon the past and rule beside him. Except RJ refused to commit to any of his half-assed and pretentious subversions.

[kuronosan]

TLJ could’ve been redeemed if Rey joined Kylo with his offer to abandon the past and rule beside him. Except RJ refused to commit to any of his half-assed and pretentious subversions.

This was my biggest problem with TLJ. Too many subversions for the sake of it.

[Tyrath]

Eh. I don't really see how that was subversion. The good Jedi stayed good. If there was anything unexpected it was the fact that Rey failed to convert Kylo back and it looked like he was going to be the big bad from then on.

And then of course JJ Abrams ruined that.

[Serra]

This was my biggest problem with TLJ. Too many subversions for the sake of it.

At the same time, some of them were not bad, if they had stuck with them.

Rey's parents being nobodies upset people, but I actually like that reveal. A hero can arise from anywhere is a much better message than, 'lulz, just kidding, you're a Palpatine, chosen bloodlines onry.'

In the same vein, while everyone wanted to know more about Snoke, Ben killing Snoke rather than letting Snoke continue to use him was a good surprise and would have been a lot better if Palpatine had not returned and Ben had stayed evil. Would have also helped if Snoke had been something in some of the extended media instead of a test-tube baby.

[Mythe_Seraph]

The storyline of “a hero can rise from anywhere” is a great one and it has its place. Just not in part 8 of a 9 episode saga dedicated to one specific bloodline.

[Aerin]

The storyline of “a hero can rise from anywhere” is a great one and it has its place. Just not in part 8 of a 9 episode saga dedicated to one specific bloodline.

Is the concept of a hero can rise from anywhere such a foreign concept with the Star Wars IP? With all the games, books, etc. I thought Disney said the main numbered movies were about the skywalker storyline. And the prequels showed young kids training to be Jedi, or “heroes.” I don’t understand why people treat it as such a novel concept here.

[Stilzkin]

The storyline of “a hero can rise from anywhere” is a great one and it has its place. Just not in part 8 of a 9 episode saga dedicated to one specific bloodline.

I disagree, why does the conclusion of the saga have to emphasize the specialness of the bloodline. It could just as easily end with the message "a hero can rise from anywhere".

The original trilogy was the Skywalkers fixing thing, the prequels was them screwing everything up, and the final sequels could have be them moving aside.

[Serra]

Wasn't the 'Skywalker Saga' title something that only came up after episode 8?

[Tyrath]

Wasn't the 'Skywalker Saga' title something that only came up after episode 8?

Yup.

It was supposed to be a trilogy of a new generation. They just came up with it for RoS to sell it as some epic 9 episode finale.

[kuronosan]

Was going to post just that.

[Salodin]

It's almost like people are incredibly eager to make up anything so long as they can continue to rail against TLJ because it killed Luke lol

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[Aerin]

Or they just don’t have perfect memory and are trying to understand what the big deal is. But whatever makes you feel better.

[Tyrath]

On a different note.

Did we ever find out how Maz kanata came upon Anakin's lightsaber? Or was that "story for another time" supposed to be a story in some D+ show? Also do we know where Luke's green saber is? So weird to me that these movies didn't ever use that one.

[mallister]

Nothing I'm aware of.

[Xno Kappa]

It’s for the sequel to the sequel trilogy in a few years.