Predisent Donald J. Skroob: Episode IX: Pray for Toledo

[Gredival]

Yeah I just pulled a year working on refugee and asylum law out of my ass, as well as five years in public interest and civil rights law (where, you know, I tend to work with a lot of indigent communities)

[Detzu]

Okay, so, immigration. Lets put Trumps tangent aside for a moment cause yah wow, and let me pick BGs brain on Immigration, Refugees and Repatriation. Anyway, first things for, #NotAllImmigrants(spelling it out, this doesn't apply to all immigrants) - Please consider the following

is it not, for everyone involved, a better idea to help make these countries (specifically the ones) people flee from better and worth living in, instead of taking in entire populations of people we cannot possibly support both financially and socially? We should accept war refugees, but they need to be repatriated when the war ends, their country will need them. We could discuss possible legal citizen status for some that wish to stay or some such, but we must also consider the people in the country who stayed and will be trying to rebuild their country with huge pieces missing.

We need borders and border policies. Both strict and as fair as possible for all. As someones whos loosely dealt with the immigration system, we're certainly not there yet. But that aside, the goal should really be to try and make countries (specifically the ones) people run from and are willing to risk DEATH escaping into countries worth living in, rather than taking on an increasingly stressful load of people until our country collapses as well.

I don't feel America should be the world police in this situation, so I'm not sure how we could naturally help these countries rebuild and improve.

Where do you guys stand/feel strongly regarding the Immigrations/Refugee issues?

Well human beings are resources. You take people from a country, you take its resources. Then what you provide for those people you took from their countries is welfare. It makes me think that immigration is both an investment for western countries and warfare against the third world countries. That's a supreme form of racism provided by the left. Think about that people.

[kuronosan]

Hi, welcome to the topic.

Now get out.

[Gredival]

So, we’re all in agreeance, at least fundamentally, that there is a problem in some of these countries which is causing the issue of mass immigration not only in the US but also countries within the EU. Let’s not call them “shit holes”, but maybe poop crevices.

We also acknowledge there’s no guarantee we’ll ever fix or solve these issues, since some of them are long running... but that we should definitely try.

I like Greds minimums, but how do we approach these situations without being the world police or being blamed for any failures? Cause I know I’ve read plenty of criticisms of the US foreign policy here. Expanding on Gred, where could we go from the bare minimum that helps but also protects us from causing any more harm than good? I mean shit that’s why we pay them and elect them cause we don’t have all the answers but I like hearing the ideas we can come up with if we try.

I’m of the belief “damned if you do damned if you don’t” applies to our foreign policy. Don’t remember very many positive responses in the last couple decades even with best intentions

I already proffered a few immediate steps to take involving our arms sales.

Also most criticism of US fopo is for its handling of the War on Terror or its sorrid history of meddling in South America, which is legitimate and does not mean the US gets to throw up it's hands and be like "Well you guys don't like when we get involved." Especially because part of the reason things are a mess is that the US often takes sides to promote its own interests. We may not be the root of problems but we often pour gasoline everywhere.

Oh let's not forget that when we do have the chance for progress, like the Iran deal, we have Trump and the GOP mucking it up just because Obama was involved.

[Detzu]

So, we’re all in agreeance, at least fundamentally, that there is a problem in some of these countries which is causing the issue of mass immigration not only in the US but also countries within the EU. Let’s not call them “shit holes”, but maybe fecal canyons

We also acknowledge there’s no guarantee we’ll ever fix or solve these issues, since some of them are long running... but that we should definitely try.

I like Greds minimums, but how do we approach these situations without being the world police or being blamed for any failures? Cause I know I’ve read plenty of criticisms of the US foreign policy here. Expanding on Gred, where could we go from the bare minimum that helps but also protects us from causing any more harm than good? I mean shit that’s why we pay them and elect them cause we don’t have all the answers but I like hearing the ideas we can come up with if we try.

I’m of the belief “damned if you do damned if you don’t” applies to our foreign policy. Don’t remember very many positive responses in the last couple decades even with best intentions

The warfare is a thing, several means are used :
- soft power : it's supposed to implement the happiness ideology through the whole wide world with entertainment such as sports, movies, fashion, way of life, people from different countries and cultures gather around made up common values
- globalist ideology : we are born in a world without borders, we are citizens of the world, every cultures are equal
- social justice warrior ideology : you have to weaken the "patriarchy" by any means necessary
- nihilism : you have to believe in nothing, which actually makes room for you to believe in what some people want you to believe in. Does that remind you of the progressism (liberals)?
- diplomacy : building alliances, signing treaties, retaliatory measures...
- war : there is nothing left to do, because all of the above didn't work.

[arus2001]

I know it's meant to be comedy infotainment, but Patriot Act on Netflix had an episode about how the US is basically funneling guns to various troubled regions and more or less exacerbating issues that are causing these migrations and immigrant crises. Even went on to reference things in the NRA playbook meant to manipulate people into not voting down gun regulations. Such may not be the sole issue for instabilities everywhere, but just as we shouldn't be the world police, we really shouldn't be global terrorists hiding under the guise of the good fight, either.

Otherwise, I'm not sold on us actually being unable to support these people or at least giving them the means to support themselves. Of course, I also realize this fear is born out of the current wealth disparity we have going on and the shrinking of the middle class. In both instances, it's not that changes can't be made to fix said issues, it's that the people with the power do so not wanting to because it means less pie for them, while further parroting it means even less pie for the people they're already standing on so status quo and fearmongering baby.

[Gredival]

Please go take at least a college intro course on international relations before you go on spouting a bunch of terms you don't understand.

Your definition of diplomacy is the definition of multilaterialism/soft power. Your definition of soft power is the definition of western liberalism/neoliberalism. World citizenship does not necessitate a belief in cosmopolitan style no borders, although it generally does look down on overly onerous restrictions on the movement of people. Nihilism is about the lack of meaning, not the lack of truth, and it is the response to seeing manipulation by a controlling class (in Nietzsche's world this was the clergy and the upper societal classes) not what facilitates that control.

War is an isolated phenomena that is not incompatible with any of the above views about the way states can/should interact. The closest thing to what you are describing are neorealist who ascribe to offensive realism, but even they don't view war as the default state or as a default posture in IR. Rather offensive realism traces back to the Schmittian concept of enmity as an integral feature of IR.

[archibaldcrane]

Immigrants are good for the US.

Study after study shows economic benefits to a broad swath of Americans to immigration of working-age people of all skill levels.

They help solve our aging-demographic problems, they are more likely to be entrepreneurs, and less likely to commit crimes than native born Americans.

The only people in America who demonstrate potential harm from the newly immigrated are the recently immigrated and (in some studies) people without a high school diploma.

This is on top of the obvious benefits for the immigrants themselves who will earn 4x to 10x the income that they did in their home countries, and their home countries benefit from transfers to relatives who still live there.

Immigration is good. It's always been good. It's a huge part of the reason America is the sole global superpower. We should increase all classes of immigrants - refugees and asylees, family and skill based.

We aren't running a fucking charity here. We accept immigrants first and foremost because it makes America stronger.

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[Andalusian girls]

Nietzsche was an existentialist not a nihilist

that is my sole contribution

[Andalusian girls]

also epistemological nihilism would indeed posit there are no truths

that is my second sole contribution

[Gredival]

Nietzsche was an existentialist not a nihilist

that is my sole contribution

Yes people forget that nihilism was not the end point truth of Nietzsche's philosophy; will to power was the solution to nihilism

[6souls]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...078000643?s=19

Telling hispanic and black members of congress who were born in America to go back where they came from.

Racism 101

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https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/15/u...et-racism.html

Nah, they're racist.

President Trump on Monday accused Speaker Nancy Pelosi of using racist comments, escalating his attacks on four first-term Democratic congresswomen to the leader of the Democratic Party.

Ms. Pelosi had criticized the president on Sunday for suggesting four lawmakers of color should “go back” to their own countries, saying that his slogan, “‘Make America Great Again’ has always been about making America white again.”

Mr. Trump in turn accused her of racist remarks. “So Speaker Pelosi said, ‘Make America white again.’ That’s a very racist — that’s a very racist statement. I’m surprised she’d say that,” Mr. Trump said at an event celebrating American manufacturing at the White House.

On Monday, Mr. Trump demanded that the four congresswomen of color, Representatives Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York, Ilhan Omar of Minnesota, Rashida Tlaib of Michigan and Ayanna S. Pressley of Massachusetts, issue their own apologies to him and “the people of Israel.” Ms. Omar is the only one of the four who was born outside the United States.

[Karbuncle]

Immigrants are good for the US.

Study after study shows economic benefits to a broad swath of Americans to immigration of working-age people of all skill levels.

They help solve our aging-demographic problems, they are more likely to be entrepreneurs, and less likely to commit crimes than native born Americans.

The only people in America who demonstrate potential harm from the newly immigrated are the recently immigrated and (in some studies) people without a high school diploma.

This is on top of the obvious benefits for the immigrants themselves who will earn 4x to 10x the income that they did in their home countries, and their home countries benefit from transfers to relatives who still live there.

Immigration is good. It's always been good. It's a huge part of the reason America is the sole global superpower. We should increase all classes of immigrants - refugees and asylees, family and skill based.

We aren't running a fucking charity here. We accept immigrants first and foremost because it makes America stronger.

I may have missed who was arguing against this, but whos arguing against this? You have my full permission to slap anyone who thinks we should halt every form of immigration if that person exists. Cause Immigration is fine, its the Illegal part, or scale most people have an issue with.

[6souls]

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2019/0...bout-lawmakers

The White House seeks to clarify that Trump's attack was meant solely for Ilhan Omar.

Asked whether Trump's comments were racist, Marc Short, chief of staff to Vice President Mike Pence, defended Trump, telling reporters he had been responding to "very specific" comments made by Rep. Ilhan Omar of Minnesota, who was born in Somalia, and not making a "universal statement."

"I don't think that the president's intent any way is racist," said Short, repeatedly pointing to Trump's decision to choose Elaine Chao, who was born outside the country, as his transportation secretary.

"The administration is welcoming of all nationalities into the United States," he said.

Lindsey Graham tells Trump to take the high road, then makes his own attack against the congresswomen.

Meanwhile, Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham, a close ally of the president who golfed with Trump over the weekend, advised the president to "aim higher" during an appearance on "Fox and Friends," even as he accused the members in question of being "anti-Semitic" and "anti-American."

"Don't get personal. Don't take the bait," said Graham. He said Ocasio-Cortez and her colleagues "are American citizens" who were "duly elected," while adding: "We all know that AOC and this crowd are a bunch of communists. They hate Israel. They hate our own country."

[Karbuncle]

"We all know that AOC and this crowd are a bunch of communists. They hate Israel. They hate our own country."

I'm trying to find the lie.

GET EM

[6souls]

I'm trying to find the lie.

GET EM

If they're truly communists, then they're Trump's allies. I don't see why there is hate.

[Karbuncle]

You know I've heard of projecting but we're hitting levels I never thought plausible.

[archibaldcrane]

Immigration is fine, its the Illegal part, or scale most people have an issue with.

Everything I typed applies to immigrants regardless of legal status.

So to your question "who is arguing against this?" - the answer is you. You are, when you say you don't want immigrants here.

[6souls]

You know I've heard of projecting but we're hitting levels I never thought plausible.

[Karbuncle]

Everything I typed applies to immigrants regardless of legal status.

So to your question "who is arguing against this?" - the answer is you. You are, when you say you don't want immigrants here.

So, by being fine with immigration, by wanting Immigration to be done through legal channels, and to greatly improve those legal channels for everyone, "I don't want Immigrants here".

I legitimately do not have a response to that.

I'm more disturbed that you have that picture on hand than you thinking it means anything.