Predisent Donald J. Skroob: Episode IX: Pray for Toledo

[6souls]

But AG, is Pelosi the Flo of the Democratic Party?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[Tokitoki]

I don't know why we are so up in arms over the idea of AOC being the face of the democratic party atm. I mean. You're not going to find a perfect candidate, and I think she represents well the direction the younger voters want to go in.


Eh, there could be worse. And if Trump wants to peg her as the face, that's no sweat off my back.


[edit] This is only temp anyway until we get a candidate.

She's too inexperienced to be able to lead the party effectively, as is shown by the consistent disparaging remarks at her expense. There's shit leveled at Pelosi, but at the end of the day she knows what battles to choose and has the following to support her. AOC will respond to tweets too quickly and can get herself in trouble if she isn't aware of the consequence of such responses. If her political opponents can easily take a tweet, whether it's out of context or not, and weaponize it against her then she doesn't have the ability to lead. Or at least she shouldn't be left to lead.

Does that mean in a few years that she won't be a more reputable and stronger voice in the House? Absolutely not. With experience people grow (haha EXP and MMO forum) and if they're intelligent enough they'll pick up on how to work the system in their favor more quickly. For some people that means taking advantage to make financial or other gains. Based on AOC's current record, she'd have to remain clear of these sorts of loopholes and find the ones that allow her to pass policies that benefit her party/faction.

[Andalusian girls]

Ah you're right. I glossed over it because I only came into the conversation to say your use of "=/=" is incorrect and to try to re-interpret archi's point.

My previous post still stands.

YEAH WELL YOUR USE OF =! WAS INCORRECT

[Andalusian girls]

allow me my informal equality operators you pirate of pedantry

[6souls]

https://www.npr.org/2019/07/17/74257...ort-in-montana
https://twitter.com/SteveDaines/stat...59069084905472

Montana senator Steve Daines offers his support for Donald's "go back" message.

Sen. Steve Daines, Republican from Montana, tweeted in support of Trump on Monday, writing: "Montanans are sick and tired of listening to anti-American, anti-Semite, radical Democrats trash our country and our ideals. This is America. We're the greatest country in the world. I stand with @realdonaldtrump."

Daines is running for re-election in 2020, and the Montana GOP featured his tweet in an fundraising email.

Many Montanans who support Trump are joining Daines in standing with Trump.

At Black Butte range in Billings, Mont., gunsmith Jerome Hall, a veteran who describes himself as a Trump supporter, says he thinks Trump's tweets and the reaction to them were funny, not racist.

"It just makes me giggle that everybody's all up in arms about this," he says. He doesn't think Trump made a racial comment, rather one about the places these congresswomen represent.

"Trump saying they need to go back to their country is pretty much him saying 'go back to California, go back to New York,' " he says. He believes Trump may have misspoke and meant to say "state" instead of "country."

"Social media is social media. Everybody takes it as the word of God, and it's not," he says. "I post stupid stuff on Facebook all the time and that's because it's funny. I'm more worried about what he plans on spending the budget on. That's what I'm looking at. Where is he putting the money for the state? Is it going to stupid stuff, is it going to make the state better? Everything like that."

[Kaslo]

Got them libtards!

[archibaldcrane]

What people need to understand is that Republicans like the racism

[Tokitoki]

her approval rating among Democrats is 80%+ and a similar number think she's good for the party, her numbers crater nationally because Republicans have an irrational hatred for her and she turns off the vast majority of independents, 72% of them thinking she's bad for the Democratic Party. it's clear the vast majority of Democrats support her and agree with many of her positions as polling them on singlepayer healthcare or the Green New Deal demonstrates.

and i find fault with the axiom the face of the party must as well be the leader of the party. to use your own analogy a company figure used for PR and social aspects can be, perhaps usually is, the CEO, but does not inherently have to be.

but mostover we are fundamentally failing to agree on defining our terms. all but me in this discussion keep repeating face of the party in the singular while i find it self-evident there are multiple figures who fall into such a category (Pelosi is certainly also one of the faces of the Party), and while the president or presidential nominee will always be the defining figure of a party in times where the out-of-power party lack one supplementary figures may come to the forefront.

I think the details of what people are agreeing with is important in this case. I think if you asked Democrats if they agree that taxing the super wealthy to fund public programs and healthcare reform is a platform they back, which is an example of something AOC is pushing, I absolutely agree they you'll get a resounding answer in favor of such. If you asked them if they agree with the idea that we should be spending tax dollars on programs to refurbish private homes (like their weatherization plan of the green new Deal) then I believe you'll find more opposition. There are also ideas in there that are not as feasible as they sound on paper, like providing families with energy efficient housing, as if it were something so simple.

And you're right, I agree that it doesn't need to be a CEO, but in this case we're talking about a political party and not a company. They both need to "market" to people, but the difference is that the person representing the political party should be someone who is experienced in the process and not someone who is trying to take a more progressive stance to change the organization in which they're a member. And that's what AOC is doing, she's trying to change the stance of the Democratic party. Is that a bad thing? Not necessarily, but "the face" or "a face" as you point out, shouldn't be trying to topple the organization. They should be building it up.

I can agree there can be multiple faces in a case such as this; you won't find me arguing against that. I agree that a president, presidential nominee, someone with significant power over the party (Pelosi) or others may take that role. I don't think AOC qualifies because she isn't necessarily supporting the Democratic party as much as she's a member of the party with an asterisk. While she aligns herself with the general ideologies of the current Democratic party, she doesn't identify only as a democrat, but also as someone who wishes to bring more social programs into the party, changing what a Democrat means for her. As a more common term, which I'm not sure if she personally agrees with, she's labeled as a Democratic Socialist.

I'm trying to leave my office soon and I feel like I may take too long to go back and review everything, but my main thesis is that while she's a political celebrity, and gets a lot of coverage, she doesn't represent the Democratic party the way a "face" normally does as she's trying to change the way it functions on a more basic level. If her reformation succeeds she will certainly be the face of the movement and what the new party will be.

[Tokitoki]

YEAH WELL YOUR USE OF =! WAS INCORRECT

Fuck you're right.

[Tokitoki]

https://www.npr.org/2019/07/17/74257...ort-in-montana
https://twitter.com/SteveDaines/stat...59069084905472

Montana senator Steve Daines offers his support for Donald's "go back" message.

So based on the gunsmith's view, New York and California are different countries from the rest of the US and the good ol' red states. Got it.

[Niiro]

WHO IS THE FACE OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY

CHOOSE YOUR FIGHTER:

[Cichy]

it's redundant to have AOC and Stalin, they both same person

[Gredival]

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...-raids-1417799

51% support ICE deportation raids and 35% oppose

[6souls]

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...-raids-1417799

51% support ICE deportation raids and 35% oppose

I like that the number of people who participated is 1984.

[Milkster]

you lads well and truly are incapable of separating an argument from the jackanapes making it, this may be worse than the time everyone was convinced imbibing alcohol could not result in dehydration because Milkster stated it could.

AOC is indisputably one of the faces of the Democratic Party, she is more recognized than most of the presidential nominees, she has an unparalleled social media presence, and is likely the single most talked about member of Congress. is she as significant as McConnell or Pelosi? don't be fatuous Jeffrey. but while party faces are usually the most influential members of said party that is not inherently so. moreover no party has a single face, the face of the party is simply the first individual people think of when thinking of said party, and that will naturally differ from individual to individual. as such Pelosi being one of the faces of the party does not invalidate AOC from being another.

the present state of affairs is of course subject to imminent change. a presidential candidate will always be the defining figure of a party, should they win they will maintain that status a la Trump or Obama, should they fail they will recede back into the shadowy netherworld from whence they spawned a la Hillary and Mittens. that said it ought be clear by now AOC is firmly entrenched in the status of political celebrity and (barring getting primaried) will continue to have one of the most recognized and talked about voices in the wars to come.

Eh here's the difference I was arguing a scientifically proven point. He didn't say she was one of the faces of the democratic party he said she was THE face of the democratic party. That's like saying Ross was THE face of Friends. And before he shifted to this he was on the AOC is the Trump of the left which is a whole ass mess. He moved topics because he was getting eviscerated on that.

[Ksandra]

She's too inexperienced to be able to lead the party effectively,

Here is where I think the problem lies. Being the face of the party doesn't mean they are the leader. It just means they represent the party and when people think of a person who describes democrats in a nutshell, it's her.

[D44kpunk]

Eh here's the difference I was arguing a scientifically proven point. He didn't say she was one of the faces of the democratic party he said she was THE face of the democratic party. That's like saying Ross was THE face of Friends. And before he shifted to this he was on the AOC is the Trump of the left which is a whole ass mess. He moved topics because he was getting eviscerated on that.

the amount of back pedaling right now is hilarious, i also didn't change the subject to that, other posters did, and AG said it a few posts before i did. check mate atheists.

also low effort, since we've been over i didn't change the subject to it already

[archibaldcrane]

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...-raids-1417799

51% support ICE deportation raids and 35% oppose

extremely framing-dependent poll question

[Dimmauk]

WHO IS THE FACE OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY

CHOOSE YOUR FIGHTER:

Can I combine them into a Democrat Voltron?

[Karbuncle]

When it comes to AoC, If I'm going to believe her Wiki page at face value, a lot of what she wants I could get behind, even if a little unrealistic. But the thing is, while I agree with the direction she would like to take us to some degree, I also think at the speed and severity she wants to turn the ship I believe would cause consequences I cannot even begin to fathom. The jobs lost to the Healthcare "Single Player" system alone would likely be in the hundreds of thousands or more.

Her views on Healthcare, Education, the Environment... all things i care about and honestly kinga agree with her on, but the methods in which she wants to quickly achieve these things feel idealistic and reckless. I'd like to get the ball rolling, and at a reasonable pace, but damn.

I mean, if the Democratic party could find a candidate that distances themselves from the PC/SJ Ideology, they'd have my vote.