2020 Democratic Primary Clown Car Special II: 365 Days of Busing

[Andalusian girls]

MA has shown that a hybrid can work.

also, you know, the best healthcare systems in the world have all shown that.

tl;dr I think not being willing to move on removing the private healthcare option is going to kill a lot of support for W/S.

there ain't much thought to it, universal healthcare by means of a public option is extremely popular, a M4A system that eliminates private insurance is quite unpopular. among independents the split is a massive 70%/39%.

[archibaldcrane]

AG, why do you think it's better to have a hybrid insurance system to a single insurance system that covers everything? The only upside I can see is that it's better for rich people at the direct expense of poor people.

[archibaldcrane]

I don't understand why the democrats are still pandering to the twitter progressives, they are a very small voting base. I mean I get twitter is how journalists get their stories now, but somebody in the DNC has got to be looking at the practical numbers right? Abolishing ICE, open borders, political correctness, everything is racist, etc that scares the shit out of everybody outside the twitter far left.

This is basically Matt Yglesias's argument - that Dems should campaign on the progressive stuff that is popular (public option, $15 minimum wage, wealth tax to finance free college and childcare, "Green New Deal" (defined as spending money on renewables, basically)) and not the stuff that is unpopular (Abolish ICE, decriminalize border crossing, reparations, outlaw private insurance). From a savvy campaigner prospective he's probably right, and Biden and Harris are probably the two candidates who are going to be the closest to going for this strategy.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...-decriminalize

[guartz]

AG, why do you think it's better to have a hybrid insurance system to a single insurance system that covers everything? The only upside I can see is that it's better for rich people at the direct expense of poor people.

ah I actually talk to a lot of people in my line of work, from ironworkers, physicists, government officials to corporate tie shills and when the topic comes up the fear is that single insurance provider might be shit, like if comcast was the only way to get tv or internet and people just want options to have something else.

[Andalusian girls]

AG, why do you think it's better to have a hybrid insurance system to a single insurance system that covers everything?

France, mostly

[archibaldcrane]

Yes, I can understand the apprehension if it wasn't better than any other insurance in history.

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[archibaldcrane]

France, mostly

Feel free to elaborate.

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[Andalusian girls]

evidence, mostly

[archibaldcrane]

Neat.

Ok does anyone else want to strawman M4A or make no real arguments for other systems?

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[Zealot]

I don't understand why the democrats are still pandering to the twitter progressives, they are a very small voting base. I mean I get twitter is how journalists get their stories now, but somebody in the DNC has got to be looking at the practical numbers right? Abolishing ICE, open borders, political correctness, everything is racist, etc that scares the shit out of everybody outside the twitter far left.

Your ideas should walk into traffic.

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[Zealot]

ah I actually talk to a lot of people in my line of work, from ironworkers, physicists, government officials to corporate tie shills and when the topic comes up the fear is that single insurance provider might be shit, like if comcast was the only way to get tv or internet and people just want options to have something else.

I'm not entirely sure where this fear comes from. Is the worry that somehow public insurance will make doctors worse at their jobs? Seriously, I'm interested to know. Or that Medicare for All will only end up covering the costs of sub-standard medical care?

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[Andalusian girls]

Neat.

Ok does anyone else want to strawman M4A or make no real arguments for other systems?

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we've had this conversation multiple times before and you've never refuted the foreign models i point to as exemplars, instead noting all-payer rate setting is more important than abolishing private health insurance, and performing eat the rich fearmongering, repetition. but if you feel the urge~

France is rated by the WHO as the most efficient healthcare system in the world. it is a hybrid system. we should model ours after theirs because it is the best. fin.

[Andalusian girls]

I'm not entirely sure where this fear comes from. Is the worry that somehow public insurance will make doctors worse at their jobs? Seriously, I'm interested to know. Or that Medicare for All will only end up covering the costs of sub-standard medical care?

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prolly because there is an instinctual understanding buttressed by millennia of evidence that monopolies are middens of inefficiency that deliver subpar goods and services at exaggerated prices and this axiom extends to government monopolies.

[Mythe_Seraph]

I'm not entirely sure where this fear comes from. Is the worry that somehow public insurance will make doctors worse at their jobs? Seriously, I'm interested to know. Or that Medicare for All will only end up covering the costs of sub-standard medical care?

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From my understanding there are a lot, and by a lot I mean most, of the funding and budgets for this actual plan still unsolved. The projections I’m familiar with projected that spending on health care would increase by a minimum of $2 Trillion. We’re already operating at a $1T deficit. Where will this money come from? And if it doesn’t? Pay for doctors will decrease across the board if it’s government funded. There’s less incentive to be the best in your field because there’s no way to attract the higher paid demographic. This leads to less people exiting the efforts they would normally exhibit to acquire greater compensation. This is the same type of system that public education suffers from. I think this is where a lot of people are coming from.

[Mythe_Seraph]

Your ideas should walk into traffic.

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This type of attitude will not favor your parties 2020 aspirations :/

[Zealot]

prolly because there is an instinctual understanding buttressed by millennia of evidence that monopolies are middens of inefficiency that deliver subpar goods and services at exaggerated prices and this axiom extends to government monopolies.

I guess but the monopoly isn't on care, it's on paying for it?

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[Zealot]

This type of attitude will not favor your parties 2020 aspirations :/

I don't give a shit about that.

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[Zealot]

From my understanding there are a lot, and by a lot I mean most, of the funding and budgets for this actual plan still unsolved. The projections I’m familiar with projected that spending on health care would increase by a minimum of $2 Trillion. We’re already operating at a $1T deficit. Where will this money come from? And if it doesn’t? Pay for doctors will decrease across the board if it’s government funded. There’s less incentive to be the best in your field because there’s no way to attract the higher paid demographic. This leads to less people exiting the efforts they would normally exhibit to acquire greater compensation. This is the same type of system that public education suffers from. I think this is where a lot of people are coming from.

I still don't get it. I'm not trying to be difficult here, but if we're talking about M4A straight up then ok, but any system with both a public and private option is going to both address all the concerns you're listing and make sure no one goes without medical care.

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[archibaldcrane]

I guess but the monopoly isn't on care, it's on paying for it?

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Feds would be a monopoly buyer, odd that AG doesn't understand how that's different from being a monopoly seller.

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[Zealot]

I never bet on AG not understanding something, just on him prescribing impenetrable Russian literature rather than addressing it.

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