Time for FFXI "Classic"?

[Salodin]

I'll take 13 randomly distributed chances over 12 ideally distributed chances.

This is basic probability here.

Basic probability dictates most of the claims you were party to were botted lol

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[D44kpunk]

I think the premise here still is that botting wasn't as effective as people think post-lockout. I'd say 10 botters are more likely to out claim 12 legit players who are spamming during a window.

So increases your chances by somewhere around 20-25%. People saying they could not experience the content because of bots are just making shit up because they were social pariahs and not invited to linkshells in general.

Or they didn't have time to spend 3-16hrs a day on HNMs, which is totally fine btw. Just the person that does SHOULD be rewarded more.

[Rhyis.]

back in my day three linkshells proudly botted and claimed all the kings every single day between them. if you didn't bot you wouldn't be allowed in those linkshells

just a small asterisk. me and my rdm crew weren't expected to bot shit 'cause dia ain't claiming shit. all the dudes around us tho botted and we fought kings all the damn time 'cause of it

[Gredival]

Basic probability dictates most of the claims you were party to were botted lol

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There were only like 7-8 people that botted out of a shell that had 18+ at events, I claimed my own D-Ring, and we didn't bot Ixion, Tiamat, or Sandworm.

[Fondue]

I'll take 13 randomly distributed chances over 12 ideally distributed chances.

This is basic probability here.

It wasn't hard to get a full ls of botters lol some of my shells gave less points to the leeches too

[Fondue]

There were only like 7-8 people that botted out of a shell that had 18+ at events, I claimed my own D-Ring, and we didn't bot Ixion, Tiamat, or Sandworm.

If your group didn't use some kind of scanzone for dead bodies for wotg mobs they were retards or lying to you

I still remember the shotgun noise

[Fondue]

just a small asterisk. me and my rdm crew weren't expected to bot shit 'cause dia ain't claiming shit. all the dudes around us tho botted and we fought kings all the damn time 'cause of it

Spell claims worked just as well as abilities

All these leeches with no idea how the bots claiming their loot worked

Imagine my shock

[Spicyryan]

I think the premise here still is that botting wasn't as effective as people think post-lockout. I'd say 10 botters are more likely to out claim 12 legit players who are spamming during a window.

So increases your chances by somewhere around 20-25%. People saying they could not experience the content because of bots are just making shit up because they were social pariahs and not invited to linkshells in general.

Or they didn't have time to spend 3-16hrs a day on HNMs, which is totally fine btw. Just the person that does SHOULD be rewarded more.

Must you constantly make up numbers?

[Day]

now kiss

[Kalmado]

now kiss

if you aren't going to discuss things then don't post in the thread.

[Gredival]

Must you constantly make up numbers?

It's impossible to have solid numbers on how much botting helps because the advantage is dynamic; the more botters you have, the more evenly distributed your claiming attempts are and the more relevant the distribution factor becomes.

To math it out precisely we'd have to know what the polling windows for lockout release are set at. The smaller the windows, the bigger advantage botters have. On the other hand though, if the polling window is small enough you hit the point where it's not possible to have enough people to actually optimize around the windows.

However the point is that lock-out rendered the main advantage of botting (and JP latency) -- claim on spawn -- irrelevant since only a tiny amount of claims could be nabbed on spawn. Before lock-out mobs would spawn red because the people who loaded fastest (JP) or people whose tools could claim on packet w/o load (bots).

Post claim delay botting only became problematic once you had NASA shells that were running two alliances when the amount of claimers is so high that the random distribution of regular claiming attempts could be inefficient enough to be noticeable.

If your group didn't use some kind of scanzone for dead bodies for wotg mobs they were retards or lying to you

I still remember the shotgun noise

I scanned manually, and it wasn't that hard considering spawns were related to campaign.

[Fondue]

wait what lol what are you smoking

if the claim delay was 1.5 seconds and you had people spaced out every .15 between .8 and 3.0

how the fuck do you think 14 people mashing provoke as fast as they possibly can are going to compete? I'm pretty sure most people who were manually claiming got locked out because they're just getting hype as fuck about seeing something and spamming

[Fondue]

the lock out delay made it literally impossible for anyone manually claiming without a botnet to consistently do anything lol

which is the part you seem to forget, you claimed 2 mobs out of 4 that spawned every day of the week every day of the year- who gives a shit

[Fondue]

I'm not sure how you think you can argue that a shell full of manual claimers had any significant number of claims against a shell with a sophisticated bot

[Fondue]

I scanned manually, and it wasn't that hard considering spawns were related to campaign.

no wonder this man is insane

[Fondue]

sandworm had nothing to do with campaign

[Spicyryan]

I'm not sure how you think you can argue that a shell full of manual claimers had any significant number of claims against a shell with a sophisticated bot

Well, he did miss my whole point that Punk regularly makes up numbers. He was just really excited to talk about botting instead I suppose.

Doesn't matter what the exact percent is. The idea of an approximate value is splitting hairs.

[Gredival]

wait what lol what are you smoking

if the claim delay was 1.5 seconds and you had people spaced out every .15 between .8 and 3.0

how the fuck do you think 14 people mashing provoke as fast as they possibly can are going to compete? I'm pretty sure most people who were manually claiming got locked out because they're just getting hype as fuck about seeing something and spamming

the lock out delay made it literally impossible for anyone manually claiming without a botnet to consistently do anything lol

You are assuming that the non-botters all load the mob at the same time and attempt to claim at the same time and get locked out at the same time. That's just not true. The mob loads on the screen and people attempt to claim at different points which creates a random distribution. Then there are also cast times for different spells affected by casting speed. Numerous times I start cast and someone else has claimed the mob before my cast finishes because their fast cast means they finish casting just a bit faster right when the lock-out ends.

which is the part you seem to forget, you claimed 2 mobs out of 4 that spawned every day of the week every day of the year- who gives a shit

I gave one example. Do you want a screen shot library of the hundreds of times I claimed?

I'm not sure how you think you can argue that a shell full of manual claimers had any significant number of claims against a shell with a sophisticated bot

Because I lived it. There were maybe 5-7 people that would bot in iiZerg regularly. The JPs and a bunch of the rest of us claimed manually. We drove off a NASA shell by outclaiming them, and the claims weren't skewed towards the botters in the shell.

no wonder this man is insane

The point is that you didn't need to bot in order to camp SW and Ixion. Which is true.

Botting let you automate it. For WOTG mobs that was a quality of life advantage, not a competitive advantage.

Well, he did miss my whole point that Punk regularly makes up numbers.

How do you arrive at that conclusion when my point is that solid numbers aren't possible, therefore making up numbers is the only thing we CAN do.

Doesn't matter what the exact percent is. The idea of an approximate value is splitting hairs.

Yes it does. There's a world of difference between bots making it "impossible" to succeed without botting (or working with botters) like pre-lockout and bots giving a minor advantage like post-lockout.

[Fondue]

Ah more anecdotal bs about your backwater server that apparently had at most 15people in DA at any time

[Rhyis.]

Spell claims worked just as well as abilities

All these leeches with no idea how the bots claiming their loot worked

Imagine my shock

every class not named rdm had a spell that was instant cast. stun/flash/etc. rdm didn't have anything like that unless they subbed drk or pld