Time for FFXI "Classic"?

[D44kpunk]

YC had people that had killed it before when they killed it their first time. Not exactly apples to apples. I'm guessing AD killed it their first time too? As opposed to ffxi now where farming the pop is 99%? Let me go farm some merits (lol) so that I can do an old WoTG battlefield and afk hit it with trusts out for my 1% chance at the best gear in the game. Same story.

I'd also like to say that I am still on your server and have personally cleared w3 with shout groups many times so please stop lying to the poor people of BG who don't even know what w3 is.

Not quite sure why you keep threading in insults about my linkshell of 12 years ago now. I was in both endgame linkshells you were in and left them, I was in DL as well which you regarded highly. At least I didn't ostracize myself and not get in one or get removed. We botted, we MPKed TSD in the early days. We ignored the random rules. So what? No one cares. Especially people on BG.

Edit: also how did yc or AD even get claim, surely no one without bots would ever claim!

[Kanriel]

Which is why I said after a few attempts average groups would get the fight down. I didn't say they'd win their first run. I mean, the fight wasn't difficult in the least, the only difficulty involved, outside of getting the claim, was not flailing (everyone stand in front, high skill move!) and killing before rage, which was an actual issue at times.

I love your example there, WoE which has...very situational BiS accessories gets to be talked like it's the best shit ever, lul. You sound like Eiryl here.

I'm genuinely interested in these shout groups that are clearing wave 3 on Asura. I've seen runs from LS's, some even with people who have the clears, and they don't do so hot. So I'm super curious who is organizing these awesome shout groups.

Also I don't know if "regarded highly" is the right term for DL. They were the top NA HNMLS, that's about it.

Edit: YC/AT would only ever show to kings after random emergency maints when there wouldn't be too many people on for right when servers came up.

[D44kpunk]

Which is why I said after a few attempts average groups would get the fight down. I didn't say they'd win their first run. I mean, the fight wasn't difficult in the least, the only difficulty involved, outside of getting the claim, was not flailing (everyone stand in front, high skill move!) and killing before rage, which was an actual issue at times.

I love your example there, WoE which has...very situational BiS accessories gets to be talked like it's the best shit ever, lul. You sound like Eiryl here.

I'm genuinely interested in these shout groups that are clearing wave 3 on Asura. I've seen runs from LS's, some even with people who have the clears, and they don't do so hot. So I'm super curious who is organizing these awesome shout groups.

Also I don't know if "regarded highly" is the right term for DL. They were the top NA HNMLS, that's about it.

Edit: YC/AT would only ever show to kings after random emergency maints when there wouldn't be too many people on for right when servers came up.

Alright, which piece of gear would you like to talk about as far as being BiS goes?

All reisen/escha-ru'aun is relatively easy. It's mostly soloable with trusts outside of bodies. Also it's all available from Domain invasion which you literally just have to tag the event to get credit for. Omen is soloable as far as cards go. Slot unlocking is unnecessarily time gated (lol) but is also soloable by a rostam COR and a few other things last I checked?

I don't care about old shiva linkshells or drama, either should you.

[Kanriel]

Alright, which piece of gear would you like to talk about as far as being BiS goes?

All reisen/escha-ru'aun is relatively easy. It's mostly soloable with trusts outside of bodies. Also it's all available from Domain invasion which you literally just have to tag the event to get credit for. Omen is soloable as far as cards go. Slot unlocking is unnecessarily time gated (lol) but is also soloable by a rostam COR and a few other things last I checked?

I don't care about old shiva linkshells or drama, either should you.

The only people soloing and getting the Omen drops are people who are already post-Omen geared. Would love to see you go in with only Escha/AF+1/Relic+1 and solo with trusts some Omen bosses. I've seen some crazy JP videos of solo's on some of those Omen bosses, but we're talking Avesta level shit, and that's going to be with Dyna-D tier gear involved. You're not progressing solo through this content. That's like saying Sky isn't real endgame because a NIN/DNC can solo it!

[D44kpunk]

I specifically said as far as cards go, the rest you can probably do with 3 people, maybe 5 is needed for OU.

Don't you find it silly you're comparing what's supposed to be the elite endgame content to sky? That's really the most relevant thing in 75 era you could come up with that's soloable? Not to mention not all of it is..

[Kanriel]

I specifically said as far as cards go, the rest you can probably do with 3 people, maybe 5 is needed for OU.

Don't you find it silly you're comparing what's supposed to be the elite endgame content to sky? That's really the most relevant thing in 75 era you could come up with that's soloable? Not to mention not all of it is..

You could, with enough time, kill basically anything in 75 days with 3-5 people, too. Rage timers would be your greatest foe (outside of getting claim).

What other content would there be to compare it to?

CoP content was...sea, which was mostly a shitty, pretty sky, and 3 Wyrms.

ToAU content was...Salvage, and 3 new ground kings.

WotG didn't have content before most people quit.

[D44kpunk]

You could, with enough time, kill basically anything in 75 days with 3-5 people, too. Rage timers would be your greatest foe (outside of getting claim).

What other content would there be to compare it to?

CoP content was...sea, which was mostly a shitty, pretty sky, and 3 Wyrms.

ToAU content was...Salvage, and 3 new ground kings.

WotG didn't have content before most people quit.

I think you're alone in your assertion that sea is shitty. I haven't seen a single person agree with you.

Most things in salvage were not doable with 5 outside of farming 35's. 25's with 5 would have been difficult and you definitely could not have farmed any 35s + do a 25.


Kirin nah
Tiamat nah
KV nah
JoL nah
PW nah
Jorm nah
Vrtra nah
baha v2 nah
odin nah
SW nah
DI maybe
any of ein t2/3 actually, nah
proto's? no, but i'm not as for sure on these ones.
Nid? maybe, probably not though, it would rage
Faf? more likely but still likely it'd rage
KB? maybe
Aspi? maybe

whereas all of omen: probably, Ou would be the only question mark and i've seen it done with 4.. so..

apparently Ou is soloable as well though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNjMs1Ope3I

should be noted that nothing he does in this video is overwhelmingly complex

[Navarius]

Salvage dupe banhammer killed FFXI. Say what you want about those who exploited it, or were even just present when the exploit was used, but it purged a lot of people who had played the game for a long time and probably would have stuck with it for a long time after. Those people may have even made an effort to start over, but the nail in the coffin was the announcement of XIV not long after the ban.

[Kanriel]

I think you're alone in your assertion that sea is shitty. I haven't seen a single person agree with you.

Most things in salvage were not doable with 5 outside of farming 35's. 25's with 5 would have been difficult and you definitely could not have farmed any 35s + do a 25.


Kirin nah
Tiamat nah
KV nah
JoL nah
PW nah
Jorm nah
Vrtra nah
baha v2 nah
odin nah
SW nah
DI maybe
any of ein t2/3 actually, nah
proto's? no, but i'm not as for sure on these ones.
Nid? maybe, probably not though, it would rage
Faf? more likely but still likely it'd rage
KB? maybe
Aspi? maybe

whereas all of omen: probably, Ou would be the only question mark and i've seen it done with 4.. so..

apparently Ou is soloable as well though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNjMs1Ope3I

should be noted that nothing he does in this video is overwhelmingly complex

I love the massive reductionist for retail, and massive overcompensation for 75.

You're also overstating some of the "difficulty". I cleared all of Salvage with 6 pretty easily. I'm certain we could have dropped someone and still managed it. Hell, not even sure what all we had, THF, MNK, BRD, WHM...??? Maybe we didn't even have six, cause I know we had no tank, or COR. The BRD would occasionally come DRK, so guess we had two people with BRD options? I personally wasn't interested in any Skadi, but I know we finished the DRK's Ares, so we got all of one set at minimum.

Also Kirin could be 5-manned, if you use todays tactics. K club DRK breh. Similar thing with like...half that list, lol.

Love this line, too:

should be noted that nothing he does in this video is overwhelmingly complex

Neither was basically any tactic used in 75 days. You were just weak. Every job was simply weak in the face of HNM's. Defense didn't work so you stuck to shadows. And level correction fucked off your accuracy/attack, so you were going to do fairly shit damage almost no matter what. If you got top tier gear, with all the buffs, you could compensate and usually make it to enough to take it down, but that isn't what people did back then. I bet if you hyper-buffed SAM's the 75 days would be much easier in a "do over" scenario. In retail, we know how to properly hyperbuff DD's, so you're going into every fight with 4 songs, 2 rolls, Dia III/IV, and a GEO on top. Back in the day you would...usually just have 2 songs.

I wish I could be motivated by spite, cause I'd actually enjoy going to do 75 cap, doing it "proper" and using modern XI tactics and seeing how difficult it would (not) be. But that's way too much grinding just to go "I told you so", rofl.

Salvage dupe banhammer killed FFXI. Say what you want about those who exploited it, or were even just present when the exploit was used, but it purged a lot of people who had played the game for a long time and probably would have stuck with it for a long time after. Those people may have even made an effort to start over, but the nail in the coffin was the announcement of XIV not long after the ban.

This is a fair point too. I had quit but I remember popping in around that time, and good old Lordwafik had been banned and was absolutely livid over it. And he was a very active member of the community left, and I bet a decent bit of interest in the game fell out with him leaving. He actually popped onto Asura a few months ago, but I think I only saw him once after that, sadly.

[Mythe_Seraph]

Could the salvage duping events have influenced SE to move away from horizontal gear progression? They knew about it well before they took any action. I find it hard to believe that the intended plan was to keep the level cap at 75 for over half a decade only to incrementally increase it over time and move to a vertical progression process. I think salvage duping May have made them think well this tier is fucked so we may as well wash it away and move up, that and the influence from other popular MMOs at the time may have swayed them towards this.

I think keeping the game horizontal makes the most sense overall. They did a fantastic job of adding new content that didn’t completely eliminate old content/gear. In no other game are there relevant pieces of gear that are 40+ levels under the gear cap. And it implemented some of these so delicately it didn’t even break anything. I don’t even know what I’m going on about at this point. Just typing thoughts here.

[Ophannus]

I think one reason they wanted to keep the cap at 75 because of the power creep that would occur with certain job combinations, e.g. mages getting Refresh and Convert from /RDM is one example. Ironically, those 2 skills did not get nerfed in any way when the level cap was increased and only serve to blunt RDM/BRD's role as an MP refresher in groups. Many jobs get some of their defining and most powerful abilities 40+. I think this was also a time before the concept of "item level" existed, and I think they were worried what they were going to do once the level cap reached 99. They were also running out of room/zone/space to put content 76+ content. I bet the remedy for this was the content we eventually ended up getting: reusuing existing assets e.g. Voidwatch/Abyssea/Legion/Ambuscade/High Tier Battlefields/RoE/Arch Omega+Ultima.

[Gredival]

Salvage dupe banhammer killed FFXI. Say what you want about those who exploited it, or were even just present when the exploit was used, but it purged a lot of people who had played the game for a long time and probably would have stuck with it for a long time after. Those people may have even made an effort to start over, but the nail in the coffin was the announcement of XIV not long after the ban.

We went over this subject in the nostalgia thread last year, and it was definitely a factor in the playerbase being so anemic going into WotG. It's undeniable that the Salvage ban had a long term impact in the playerbase. It was a shitty situation that it took so long for the exploit to be discovered and that it was used by so many people before being caught. SE couldn't let it go just because so many people had done it, but taking action was bound to be painful.

The lack of content in WotG (no post-game area like Sky and Sea, no instances like Limbus or Dynamis) was a double-whammy on the leftovers and also probably prevented people from restarting (in addition to XIV)

[Draylo]

this is horse shit, you, spicy, and co attack this guy every chance you get then pretend he's the only one talking shit

No actually it isn't, I could go through and quote every post and the majority of his are attacking me when I simply leave my opinion. The kid has some deep rooted hatred and not just here but any thread I make a comment about a private server, he comes along and starts personally attacking me and dragging up shit from the past. Go look through my posts and you'll see, but of course his spam friend will come to defend him. He's even dragged up any little gossip he can to try and attack me instead of attacking my opinion, really petty shit.

Also, do I get to put screenshots of me doing 75 content (everything) to prove Gred and him wrong?

[Spicyryan]

Day chiming in the way he does is probably the biggest pile of horseshit if we are calling horseshit.

[D44kpunk]

I disagree and would love if you proved it LoH.

I don't think a lot of that content could have just simply been done with k club drks when limiting it to 5 people. I also disagree with your premise that people had no idea how to play the game. BLM was superior to SAM and most linkshells into the 75 era had g horns and refresh cycling. There weren't nearly the amount of buffs that there are now in the game in general. SV brd rotations were incredibly common to get 4-6 songs before fights or zergs. Brd rotations in general were very common.

Most of the Cor and otherwise rolls didn't even exist... So..

[Gredival]

No actually it isn't, I could go through and quote every post and the majority of his are attacking me when I simply leave my opinion. The kid has some deep rooted hatred and not just here but any thread I make a comment about a private server, he comes along and starts personally attacking me and dragging up shit from the past. Go look through my posts and you'll see, but of course his spam friend will come to defend him. He's even dragged up any little gossip he can to try and attack me instead of attacking my opinion, really petty shit.

Also, do I get to put screenshots of me doing 75 content (everything) to prove Gred and him wrong?

No one is saying D44 doesn't fling shit. He's saying that comments like "The kid has some deep rooted hatred" and "You need help" and "Are you just incapable of being a normal human being" are attacks. Which they are. You aren't using "fighting words" the way he is, but you are definitely flaming him back.

You said I don't want to punish him because he is on my side but I went 1v25 in the FFXI Nostalgia thread last year and I've been arguing on forums about XI for longer than I actually played. I really don't think I need D44 as a cheerleader.

I'm not going to get rid of D44 from the thread because I'd have to get rid of a lot more people for flaming him back. Of course D44 definitely started it, and you are completely right that it doesn't add to his argument at all and just comes off badly, but you can't say you haven't attacked him. And we generally have not given a free pass to people just because they were the second flamer. I value the discussion generated more than a veneer of civility.

And you also can't say he isn't attacking your opinion. I went through five pages and posted stuff D44 said that was actual substance. It's also ridiculously hypocritical for you to say this when you specifically disavow yourself of defending your opinion in a debate because it would take too much effort for you, "opinions aren't provable" and "opinions wouldn't change"

[Draylo]

When this started he was coming up with some random shit about me buying a clear or some gossip people think they know. It has 0 relevance to the discussion and this guy brought it up to devalue my opinion even though it doesn't mean shit in 2019 lol. I felt I had to comment after being out of this silly discussion, because that guy brought my name up. Well, if hes allowed to bring up personal attacks and old drama, I didn't see a reason to not say things like he has rooted hatred and needs help, because its true. Anyone with that much vitriol in their typing def has issues. He could have simply shut up and kept to the topic without trying underhanded tactics to devalue peoples opinions. It must bother him so much that people have a differing opinion on the 75 cap that he feels the need to personally attack them to make them appear stupid lol.

I honestly don't care if you don't get rid of him, yall can have a circle jerk in this thread. I just came in because that guy randomly quoted me like 5 pages later. This discussion really doesn't mean much, not one person on either side has changed or budged on their opinion and its everyone repeating their opinions over and over. I wonder what the goal is, but keep on going.

[Day]

No actually it isn't, I could go through and quote every post and the majority of his are attacking me when I simply leave my opinion. The kid has some deep rooted hatred and not just here but any thread I make a comment about a private server, he comes along and starts personally attacking me and dragging up shit from the past. Go look through my posts and you'll see, but of course his spam friend will come to defend him. He's even dragged up any little gossip he can to try and attack me instead of attacking my opinion, really petty shit.

Also, do I get to put screenshots of me doing 75 content (everything) to prove Gred and him wrong?

i'm reading the thread dude, you spicy and kalamado have a very co-dependent relationship with the guy, have you tried ignoring him?

[Day]

Day chiming in the way he does is probably the biggest pile of horseshit if we are calling horseshit.

[Gredival]

You'll note that I haven't infracted anyone. Because as I said I value the discussion generated more than you two playing nice. But people calling for D44's head should be cognizant that he wouldn't be the only one on the chopping block if we were going to enforce rules about flaming. It would be like the Salvage bans, far reaching, and would kill the discussion here. Which is precisely why I'm not doing anything.