Time for FFXI "Classic"?

[Gredival]

I think you're judging Abyssea on the end of it when everyone had every atma, knew every strategy, had emp weapons and full +3 and were killing bosses in 15 secs. For a good while people didn't even know how to get time extensions, or what atmas did what, which jobs combos to use, all procs, or emps with crit WS's. Abyssea gave our LS infinitely more content to do and gear to get than camping kings did every day. The process of figuring everything out post-Abyssea was a lot quicker because everyone had equal access, sure. But any group of 12 with a brain could kill any king in their sleep - they just didn't have 18 bots to get claims or the ability to pop them multiple times a day. This poor game design doesn't make the content great, just annoying. The drops (aside from a few) were all sidegrades anyway - how is content that was incredibly boring and you could opt out of in the pinnacle of end game?

People figured out time extensions by midway through Visions. The crit+ Atma was ascendant during Scars. People started working on the Empyreans by the end of Scars. The fact is all the Abyssea crutches made it possible for bad players to finish the content. That was not true of 75. Even late WotG you could see first timers stroll into the pit, rage/flail Faf, and never come back.

Just consider the fact that everyone could get Emp weapons, versus how Relics were designed by nature to be rare (explicitly said not everyone would get one).

[Inactive]

People figured out time extensions by midway through Visions. The crit+ Atma was ascendant during Scars. People started working on the Empyreans by the end of Scars. The fact is all the Abyssea crutches made it possible for bad players to finish the content. That was not true of 75. Even late WotG you could see first timers stroll into the pit, rage/flail Faf, and never come back.

Just consider the fact that everyone could get Emp weapons, versus how Relics were designed by nature to be rare (explicitly said not everyone would get one).

Bad players could finish HNMLS content too, they often just didn't have the tools to get claims - but every now and then they would. Relics were slim because of the time gate, need to clear zones, frequency of currency etc, not solely because of the difficulty.

It sounds to me that you enjoyed the exclusivity of being in the HNMLS scene, and the status it seemed to afford you by being able to walk around in certain gear and run in certain circles. I'm all for having segments of the game being somewhat exclusive and separated by skill, gearchecks, strategy etc. The problem was the only things that kept people out were bots, retarded boring multiple day timers, and poorly designed content. Hence why I'm saying the design of kings was garbage. Abyssea just showed that if everyone had access, the content would be trivial and we'd all be geared extremely quickly - and half of us already were that geared from kings, which is why we just stopped doing it.

[Gredival]

Across three servers I never saw brand new HNM shells succeed. Not counting when major shell broke and players from other major HNMLS came together with fragments to reform a new shell. I'm talking when a mid-tier generic "End Game" shells that could do content like Sky, Sea, Limbus, etc. tried to make it to the big stage and go after the competitive camps. They would show up, usually do poorly then fade into the background. That includes my own shell in Asura.

Players in these shells that wanted King gear either went without it or they left those shells to joined the established ones like I did. Groups are only as strong as their weakest link. In Einherjar, Sky, Sea, etc. you could herd cats. I could guide my shell to victory against JoL, Proto-Ultima, Bahamut 2 (with brainless zerg strat only). But in Kings, those weak links doom you.

[Kanriel]

that the private servers are all based on 75 cap and per Atomos probably dwarf Asura.

Would love to see some more information behind this claim. Eden has 548 players online, and they even say there's 1.5 players per household. That's just over 400 players. Nasomi has 1k on, if they're a similar rate of dualboxing, that's around 700 players. Putting them together and you have less than half of Asura, so you'd need Asura to average more than 2 accounts per for them to be even right now. So them dwarfing Asura I cannot see at all. And you also have to add in the incalculable "75 is free" aspect, which means at least a portion of those players would not play an official classic server.

And then bring back the comparison to WoW Classic. I found this website: https://wowclassicpopulation.com/ Which shows there have been 900k active WoW classic players in the last 2 weeks, of 3.5mil. So WoW classic is down to 25% of its initial population 4 months into it...? Maybe classic isn't what everyone wants after all.

[D44kpunk]

This dude makes the same argument over and over and over. This thread is a waste of everyone's time as long as LoH draylo and spicy are allowed to post in it. Not saying mods should do anything, that would be silly, but it further reinforces the point that BG is not the place for this conversation when it's these 3 brigading.

People refute you and you come back with the same dumb things.

[Spicyryan]

This dude makes the same argument over and over and over. This thread is a waste of everyone's time as long as LoH draylo and spicy are allowed to post in it. Not saying mods should do anything, that would be silly, but it further reinforces the point that BG is not the place for this conversation when it's these 3 brigading.

People refute you and you come back with the same dumb things.

The irony is off the charts.

[Gredival]

Would love to see some more information behind this claim. Eden has 548 players online, and they even say there's 1.5 players per household. That's just over 400 players. Nasomi has 1k on, if they're a similar rate of dualboxing, that's around 700 players. Putting them together and you have less than half of Asura, so you'd need Asura to average more than 2 accounts per for them to be even right now. So them dwarfing Asura I cannot see at all. And you also have to add in the incalculable "75 is free" aspect, which means at least a portion of those players would not play an official classic server.

And then bring back the comparison to WoW Classic. I found this website: https://wowclassicpopulation.com/ Which shows there have been 900k active WoW classic players in the last 2 weeks, of 3.5mil. So WoW classic is down to 25% of its initial population 4 months into it...? Maybe classic isn't what everyone wants after all.

Here was the post:

I'd wager a handful of people hating on private servers and/or 75cap old school retail don't really pay attention to the private server scene. Yes, it is a total shit show, not denying that, but the player numbers on certain servers completely invalidate a handful of opinions shared in this thread.

There's a lot of hate towards the original FFXI game and playstyle. However, you can take a quick look at the two highest populated private servers (Nasomi and Eden) and see 75cap old school retail is what the majority of the players not on retail exclusively want. The rest of the servers do not even come close to the numbers these two servers have put up over the year(s). The simple fact that Nasomi alone sits at a player count higher than majority of the current retail servers and has competed with Asura numbers in the past pretty much seals that. When Eden launched, before all the drama that has happened, they were right behind Nasomi in player counts as well peaking a bit under concurrent 1k players, with an average of around 400-800 online at a time. Between the two servers combined, they are well over Asura's typical player count.

If SE did create a classic server, it would easily hands down be more popular that current retail. The data/numbers that are available from past peaks on both servers, as well as their every day peaks and distinct connections provide clear proof this is still the case, by far.

The player count would vary over time as people quickly level up and hit end game. One of the biggest issues back then was the leveling gap which is why level sync was introduced and why both Nasomi and Eden have it. Some QoL was good for the game, while others killed the enjoyment/incentive people had. If this were to ever be a thing from SE, I would agree some QoL would have to come into play to deal with certain aspects of things, but I would probably see them adding it as time goes by and things become needed. (Again for example, level sync. There would be no reason to add it from the start at all if they were to ever add it in this kind of situation.)

Burn out would happen a lot faster than it did when the game originally released as well, which is something WoW Classic is dealing with already. While everyone loves classic and wanted it back, the game overall didn't have much in terms of content to really keep people playing long term outside of the fact of being 40man raids, lockouts, and slow leveling. Now that everyone knows all the ins and outs of the game, knows the best strats/setups for raids to lowman things, and to burn through leveling/content, the lifespan of the classic game is cut in such a small chunk compared to how it played originially. Most of the major players have already unsubbed because they've hit level cap, done Molten Core and so on and basically 'beat the game' again already. Which comes into the next situation of adding expansions again as time goes on which is something Blizzard is planning on doing to keep Classic going now that it's back.

FFXI Classic would not have the same burn out problems given the artificial rarity gates on Ground Kings. Also, if they released it all the way up to CoP and/or ToAU at launch.

[Inactive]

The chances of a brand new shell with no one having done any kings at all succeeding was rare, yea - most shells at least had a few people that could explain strategy and what not. But because they could only claim once every 3 weeks they didn't have as many opportunities to get experience as most, none of which was content related hence my point.

There's no real point in going back and forth and I'm bored so I'll just close with this: I did love 75 era FFXI, it was one of my favorite times playing games. But it was massively flawed and it only worked at the time because half of us were teenagers/20s, hadn't played any MMO similar for reference, and frankly just had the time and patience to deal with the bullshit. A classic server wouldn't bring back the feelings we had when we first were in the mix, especially now that we're blatantly aware of all the flaws. The community, forums, drama, multitudes of endgame content and more were all great - camping Kings wasn't. It was dumb, botted, boring, and has not/will not be replicated again for those reasons. If that was the pinnacle of your game play, more power to ya - but I'll pass on all that lol

[D44kpunk]

It's pretty simple. If you have nothing to contribute you shouldn't be posting. You(spicy) and draylo have done nothing but ride my dick for 40+ pages now. You may have added to the conversation at first but since you've done nothing.

Go back to the wiki, in relation to this discussion you are useless. You didn't play the era and don't know anything about it.

I've made arguments for why I think the 75 era was better which mostly came down to better game design and staff. The latter of which none of you have refuted and the former you've adopted a "you're dumb because your opinion isn't mine". It's a video game, there isn't a wrong or right as to what you find more enjoyable. You like easy repetitive reskinned grinds, that's fine. Different strokes for different folks. You've already said so multiple times, coming in here and calling me insane proves not that I am but that you are.

I also still love the "people don't have time now" argument, like people who worked 40hrs and went to school didn't play ffxi back in 2007. People who use this argument prove they are unable to see past their own preferences and accept that other people might have different preferences. If you think your experience is the only one in the world (which seems asinine since this one is mostly related to age) then you need to step outside of the bubble. Stop spamming lillith and take a stroll through a park. Also it's invalidated by nasomi and Eden having so much success as well..

[Spicyryan]

It's pretty simple. If you have nothing to contribute you shouldn't be posting. You and draylo have done nothing but ride my dick for 40+ pages now. You may have added to the conversation at first but since you've done nothing.

Go back to the wiki, in relation to this discussion you are useless. You didn't play the era and don't know anything about it.

I've made arguments for why I think the 75 era was better which mostly came down to better game design and staff. The latter of which none of you have refuted and the former you've adopted a "you're dumb because your opinion isn't mine". It's a video game, there isn't a wrong or right as to what you find more enjoyable. You like easy repetitive reskinned grinds, that's fine. Different strokes for different folks. You've already said so multiple times, coming in here and calling me insane proves not that I am but that you are.

You've tried to back up your opinions. In-between all the other nonsense. So if participation was worth something then you'd have all the trophies.
Otherwise, all you've done is bitch and badger. Declared how person after person was deficient and their participation invalid and incorrect.
At least Gred actually carries a conversation, and goes out of their way to back up their views. Where as you just brandish your lack of sophistication.

I mean wow, you told others to go away yet again, big whoop, fuck you. No one has to do anything you say. So stop telling others what to do.

[Kanriel]

Here was the post:



FFXI Classic would not have the same burn out problems given the artificial rarity gates on Ground Kings. Also, if they released it all the way up to CoP and/or ToAU at launch.

I'm not seeing anything but him making a claim. One that doesn't follow with the numbers we have available to us. Just Nasomi + Eden is 2/3 Asura's population, all numbers taken at the same time. So him making a claim that they're more doesn't fit the facts we know. So him making a claim doesn't really hold a lot of weight if there's no data to back it up, when we do have data to back up a counterclaim.

[Spicyryan]

If we are calling Nasomi and Eden successful. Then I bet the new Cats movie is as well.

[D44kpunk]

I'm not seeing anything but him making a claim. One that doesn't follow with the numbers we have available to us. Just Nasomi + Eden is 2/3 Asura's population, all numbers taken at the same time. So him making a claim that they're more doesn't fit the facts we know. So him making a claim doesn't really hold a lot of weight if there's no data to back it up, when we do have data to back up a counterclaim.

Both have fallen off significantly since the inception of this topic due to insanely bad management. You'll counter and cry that it's burn out as you afk in jeuno for the 3rd straight week.

Nasomi when ninja streamed it probably had double the unique IPs asura had. Before that it was about the same. You don't have unique IP information on asura unless you work for the Japanese branch of SE or something? Funny.. I remember you white knighting Reddit and crying non stop when all the classic ffxi threads popped up around the ninja time too. This is the only thread on the subject I've remained active in, why do you feel the need to tell everyone the 75 era wasn't good? One you admit you didn't play in because no HNMLS wanted you in their shell? Do you see how this looks to people?

I'll wait for you to link asuras unique IP information otherwise it's just you talking out your ass.. again.. Between the both of us if you only have LoH on and not your other 4 characters, we still have 25 accounts online

[Spicyryan]

Hold on guys, calling SE for information on all the unique IPs on a single server. Sounds legit.

[D44kpunk]

Hold on guys, calling SE for information on all the unique IPs on a single server. Sounds legit.

You're incredibly dense. My entire point is he doesn't have access to that information, so by trying to make fun of me you're making fun of him.

Just typical spicyryan things. Stick to the wiki bucko

[Kanriel]

Both have fallen off significantly since the inception of this topic due to insanely bad management. You'll counter and cry that it's burn out as you afk in jeuno for the 3rd straight week.

Nasomi when ninja streamed it probably had double the unique IPs asura had. Before that it was about the same. You don't have unique IP information on asura unless you work for the Japanese branch of SE or something? Funny.. I remember you white knighting Reddit and crying non stop when all the classic ffxi threads popped up around the ninja time too. This is the only thread on the subject I've remained active in, why do you feel the need to tell everyone the 75 era wasn't good? One you admit you didn't play in because no HNMLS wanted you in their shell? Do you see how this looks to people?

I'll wait for you to link asuras unique IP information otherwise it's just you talking out your ass.. again.. Between the both of us if you only have LoH on and not your other 4 characters, we still have 25 accounts online

Are you seriously saying that Nasomi with the NINJA BUMP is the accurate time to weigh the popularity of a private server?

And you don't even know how many characters I have, so lol.

[Spicyryan]

You're incredibly dense. My entire point is he doesn't have access to that information, so by trying to make fun of me you're making fun of him.

Just typical spicyryan things. Stick to the wiki bucko

Neither do you, but he didn't claim he had access to the info on unique clients. That was you, moving the goal posts as you always do.

Stop telling others what to do, kid.

[NynJa]

FFXI Classic would not have the same burn out problems given the artificial rarity gates on Ground Kings. Also, if they released it all the way up to CoP and/or ToAU at launch.

That playerbase that was doing ground kings are now 10-15 years older...they arent in high school / college anymore, and "Classic FFXI" wont attract players of that age demographic.

[D44kpunk]

Neither do you, but he didn't claim he had access to the info on unique clients. That was you, moving the goal posts as you always do.

Stop telling others what to do, kid.

I'm not seeing anything but him making a claim. One that doesn't follow with the numbers we have available to us. Just Nasomi + Eden is 2/3 Asura's population, all numbers taken at the same time. So him making a claim that they're more doesn't fit the facts we know. So him making a claim doesn't really hold a lot of weight if there's no data to back it up, when we do have data to back up a counterclaim.

I'm not doing this again, just because spicyryan is too incompetent to read or contribute anything to this conversation.

Are you seriously saying that Nasomi with the NINJA BUMP is the accurate time to weigh the popularity of a private server?

And you don't even know how many characters I have, so lol.

Nasomi when ninja streamed it probably had double the unique IPs asura had. Before that it was about the same.

The incompetence and just utter lack of respect for the conversation being had is just astounding. I like how this kid also avoided all my other questions. It's very clear that the endgame scene slighted you, so you felt you had to slight them by shitting on the 75 era whenever you could. During the era it was crying about bots in shout (which you now use a ton of) and now it's just saying that the era was bad in general. The funniest part is I've had several people from your discord message me because you're crying in there that I'm bullying you. If you can't pick your own fights I have no idea why you brought so much personal history to this one. As someone who claims he has accomplished so much (would be interesting to see the list, according to my tally it's non-existent) you sure are a cry baby.

[Kanriel]

Yeah boohoo man, I'm just losing it on my Discord:



Damn, I sound so hurt!

How do you know how many unique IP's Asura even has? And why is Ninja streaming the game related to any of this discussion, just lol.