Predisent Donald J. Skroob: Episode X: Purple Raining to Impeachment

[Salodin]

This forum is a reminder, at least once a month, that artards and bigots buy video games too.

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[Zealot]

Ophannus I'm all for nuance in trans issues and all things but equating progressivism on gender issues to literal attempts to undermine the democratic process is getting your argument off on the wrong foot.

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[Cantih]

This is what happens when you let things like Guartz's insanity go on for months on end.
Someone else thinks doing the same thing is fine, so even if you ban the original, you get stuck with the same problem repeating over and over.

[Zealot]

I mean

There are definitely parts of gender in society worth discussing but "why do progressives say gender is a construct but some trans people change their appearance" is the 2019 version of "why would lesbians use dildos?"

And claiming using whatever pronoun makes someone more comfortable to hear infringes on your first amendment rights is

1) incorrect, the first amendment protects you from government attempts to infringe upon speech

2) the CA employment code you cited provides for not getting pronouns correct right away

3) if someone expresses to you they'd rather be he or she or what have you and you repeatedly, deliberately choose to refer to them otherwise despite it meaning literally nothing to you and obviously a lot to them, you're just an asshole, not someone making a stand for your rights or biology or grammar

4) that being the case it's reasonable to assume you'd be creating a hostile environment for that person for no reason except to discriminate against them.

So

There's that.

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[Zealot]

People who went through puberty as a male competing as a female would presumably give them a physical advantage, I'm up forn debating that issue.

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[Salodin]

People who went through puberty as a male competing as a female would presumably give them a physical advantage, I'm up forn debating that issue.

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That is not the issue he is describing. This is a scarecrow, at best.

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[Salodin]

Let's not pretend he is saying things hes not in order to paint him in a better light. Thanks.

We dont need to "both sides" clear bigotry.

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[Zealot]

That was a specific issue he raised.

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[Salodin]

Ah, missed that post my b. Was only focused on the other half a dozen where he was being a super hard R bigot.

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[Salodin]

But yeah, Macho Man Randy Savage shouldnt be able to compete in the women's league just because he transitioned 2 months ago

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[Patriarch]

But yeah, Macho Man Randy Savage shouldnt be able to compete in the women's league just because he transitioned 2 months ago

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I'd watch the metric fuck out of that tho

[Kalmado]

But yeah, Macho Man Randy Savage shouldnt be able to compete in the women's league just because he transitioned 2 months ago

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I'd watch the metric fuck out of that tho

[Fiye]

But yeah, Macho Man Randy Savage shouldnt be able to compete in the women's league just because he transitioned 2 months ago

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I'm quoting this from elsewhere.

_____

There is a study by Joanna Harper on transgender runners' performance versus cisgender runners' performance that was published in the Journal of Sporting Cultures and Identities in 2015. This was the first-ever-study of transgender athletes, according to the Washington Post. The study showed that as testosterone levels approach female norms, trans women experience a decrease in muscle mass, bone density and other physical characteristics.

The aforementioned study has become the basis of the IOC's guidelines on transgender athletes:
In 2015, IOC invited Harper to attend its Consensus Meeting on Sex Reassignment and Hyperandrogenism held in Lausanne, Switzerland. After 3 days, the panel of scientists and physicians converged on revised rules for transgender competitors, including at least 1 year of hormone replacement therapy for female competitors, rather than the 2 years previously required. That change was a nod to Harper's personal transition experience and to research published in 2004 in the European Journal of Endocrinology showing that the testosterone levels—and therefore performance—of 19 transgender women stabilized after 12 months of hormone therapy. The revised IOC policy also lifted the requirement for sex reassignment surgery. That decision was a long time coming, Harper says. "What your genitals are doesn't make a difference."

You can read the full study for yourself here. (Warning: this does open a PDF document!)
You can also read about Joanna Harper and the research involved in Science Magazine.
There are also additional studies that corroborate the first. As mentioned in this article in Cosmos Magazine:

...a Dutch study in the European Journal of Endocrinology, which found that within a year after gender-reassignment surgery, trans women had testosterone and haemoglobin levels no higher than their female-born compatriots. That’s important because high testosterone is associated with masculine levels of muscle mass and strength, while high haemoglobin is associated with greater aerobic capacity and therefore speed.

You can read the full study for yourself here. (Warning: this does open a PDF document!)

Another study, called Sport and Transgender People: A Systematic Review of the Literature Relating to Sport Participation and Competitive Sport Policies, was published in 2017:

Currently, there is no direct or consistent research suggesting transgender female individuals (or male individuals) have an athletic advantage at any stage of their transition (e.g. cross-sex hormones, gender-confirming surgery) and, therefore, competitive sport policies that place restrictions on transgender people need to be considered and potentially revised.

You can read the full study for yourself here.

To be clear, there aren't many studies on this currently, but this is the best data available on the subject. By contrast, there is no scientific (peer-reviewed) case to support excluding transgender athletes from competitive sports.

[kuronosan]

Not this fucking topic again.

[Salodin]

So, by your own research, Macho Man Randy Savage shouldnt be able to compete with the other women after transitioning only 2 months ago lol

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[kuronosan]

I repeat.

Not this fucking topic again.

[Kalmado]

I mean, sure why not let them compete with women right away. Pro wrestling is a predetermined event! Also, the picture I posted is Nyla Rose, a transgender wrestler for the promotion AEW which is on TNT every Wednesday. She lost the match to crown the first women's champion to the women below.

[Patriarch]

He would still be too macho

[Zealot]

I'm all for that tweet that proposed a new Olympics with 0 drug testing. Let's see how high humans can REALLY jump.

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[Kalmado]

But it's pro wrestling so it's fun!

Spoiler: show

I am not by any means trying to have a discussion or even an opinion on trans people in sports.