President Sonic T. Hedgehog: Episode XI: #TEAMSONIC2020

[Kalmado]

Heirarchies will never go away. Social classes will always exist, because the natural tendency of all living beings is to create it.

I think largely the issue right now is the distance between them needs to be narrowed because the difference between each tier is ridiculously large in a way that is embarrassing in 2020.

About hierarchies, you are right. I wonder if the adults with kids who fight for pure socialism, like a brain surgeon should get paid the same as <insert easy job> because everyone should be equal, realize that right this minute if their kids have shitty skins in Fortnite they are getting picked on like crazy. In a respect, that's hierarchy (shitty skins vs awesome skins). Or, that's just my opinion.

[kuronosan]

About hierarchies, you are right. I wonder if the adults with kids who fight for pure socialism, like a brain surgeon should get paid the same as <insert easy job> because everyone should be equal, realize that right this minute if their kids have shitty skins in Fortnite they are getting picked on like crazy. In a respect, that's hierarchy (shitty skins vs awesome skins). Or, that's just my opinion.

That's not what I mean by distance. What I mean is there should not be 1% of the population with more wealth than the entire country combined. One dude should not be able to spend billions of dollars on TV time like I spend money on coffee. That's ridiculous, and the money could be better used improving the country.

It's absurd to suggest a neurosurgeon should be paid the same as a fast food worker. But it's equally absurd to suggest a fast food worker shouldn't make a liveable wage.

[Zealot]

So what do you go after? Individual pay or cost of living?

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[arus2001]

wHy NoT bOtH

[kuronosan]

So what do you go after? Individual pay or cost of living?

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Cost of living is increasing. Pay is not, not proportionately. You can't really decrease the cost of living, but you can increase pay accordingly.

The complicated part of the problem is how closely tied together society makes them. If you increase pay, capitalism demands cost goes up because people can afford it, so therefore profit is priority.

There ought to be a way to cap or slow this by reducing the disproportion.

[Kalmado]

That's not what I mean by distance. What I mean is there should not be 1% of the population with more wealth than the entire country combined. One dude should not be able to spend billions of dollars on TV time like I spend money on coffee. That's ridiculous, and the money could be better used improving the country.

It's absurd to suggest a neurosurgeon should be paid the same as a fast food worker. But it's equally absurd to suggest a fast food worker shouldn't make a liveable wage.

All points I agree on. I use the job/pay analogy because it is absurd, yet I've read and actually heard people suggest extremely high paying jobs should make the same as the lowest. In my opinion, that is the toxic socialism that should be avoided. Just using common sense that is extreme bullshit. We had a friend who a few years back started being extremely vocal about feminism. She said verbatim all women should make the same as all men no matter the job, experience, or education level. That's a firm no.

When I read about Bloomberg's money spent so far I just laughed. This idiot is going to spend so much and not win and all of that money could've done so much good to help people. His campain's twitter posts pics of their offices getting vandalized. In Flint someone put a sign on the window of the office reading "Eat The Rich". I wonder if all the money he's wasted on advertising, paying "supporters", etc could've 100% fixed Flint's water issue.

[Kalmado]

Sorry if this isn't the right place, but it's something I thought about this morning and since Kuro brought up cost of living vs pay I thought I'd share. I love coffee. Drink usually around six cups a day. I'm not a snob where I gotta have poop beans from remote South America and I'll spend $529478/lb on it, but I want decent coffee. I am about out so I need to buy some beans. Last time I was at the only local coffee shop in town I inquired about buying beans to take home. $10/12oz for some unremarkable coffee. If it was $5 I may buy it because I want to support local business, but at that price I'll most likely buy from Amazon and support our corporate overlords. I get it local coffee shop, you are a business and are trying to make money. But this is a lower middle class city and those prices are not in line (in my opinion).

I don't know how that gets fixed. Or, if it even needs fixing. Maybe that's normal and we see it different in our county because of our cost of living vs wages here. I don't know. I mean, could we afford that coffee? Sure. But then we aren't able to maybe put that money towards something else that either we want or maybe we be frugal to pay debt or save for retirement (which we have barely any). And I did think about how maybe the owner of the coffee shop pays a shit ton in rent, supplies and general cost of doing business keeps going up, etc and they are forced to charge a higher price. These are things I don't know about and don't understand.

[archibaldcrane]

You absolutely can decrease cost of living. The entire health care debate is driven by spiraling health care costs and price controls (like every other country has) would reduce that aspect of cost of living.

Zoning reform would reduce the cost of housing especially in coastal cities.

Both of those things can be done at no cost to the normal American.

Beyond that, tax and transfer schemes can reduce precarity by shifting resources from where they are abundant to where they are most needed - from middle age peak earners people to old+young, from childless adults to children, from rich to poor.

[arus2001]

Something Pete said the other night was basically akin to a job being a person's identity, which was some Groggle-tier bootstraps bullshit of its own. Not everyone knows what they want to be, just as not everyone has the means or talent to make that possible. So, while I also say the push for $15/hr minimum wage isn't nearly enough, it also shouldn't be construed as higher skill work should not pay as much. We've gotta do better to find that happy medium where people can find jobs they like and live on, instead of slaving away living paycheck to paycheck and not being able to do things all the angry boomers could at the same age milestones. UBI is an alternative approach, but that just triggers also the GOPers who are anti-handout despite corporations getting beaucoup charity through tax breaks and shit.

[archibaldcrane]

Weird throwback to uh, 4 years ago.

Look at how lucid and sharp Trump is in this debate. It's almost unrecognizable from the Trump today.

Makes you realize why he won the primary.

https://twitter.com/MylesDyer/status...515212288?s=19

[Jaybar]

Yea cost of living is a very easy thing to change and will vary from municipality to municipality and climate zone to climate zone. Imagine being able to live, work, and play without having to pay for car insurance, fuel, maintenance, and permits. Pedestrian/transit oriented and higher-density urban design will be a driving force for mitigating out of control living costs and reduce carbon footprints of entire towns/cities. A lifestyle change will be required for a majority of Americans which is never easy, though. I haven't lived with a car for over 8 years and it is liberating.

Sorry to the rural folk out there.

[kuronosan]

It's okay, rural life isn't so bad.

[Kaslo]

It's okay, rural life isn't so bad.

It really isn't, but I've been trying to think of ways to save rural towns (because industry isn't really going to relocate there to save these old towns) and the best idea I've had is what I witnessed in Scotland, where commuter rails allowed people to live in small villages but train into the city for work.

[Yabby]

It really isn't, but I've been trying to think of ways to save rural towns (because industry isn't really going to relocate there to save these old towns) and the best idea I've had is what I witnessed in Scotland, where commuter rails allowed people to live in small villages but train into the city for work.

That or invest in rural high-speed internet to allow them to telework. I know that limits the jobs, but it would allow a large group of people to live in rural areas without having to commute at all. I enjoy being able to travel out to a lakehouse and being able to still work with no one around me for 20+ miles.

Edit: Ever worked outside naked with a view?... it's nice.

[zoobernut]

That or invest in rural high-speed internet to allow them to telework. I know that limits the jobs, but it would allow a large group of people to live in rural areas without having to commute at all. I enjoy being able to travel out to a lakehouse and being able to still work with no one around me for 20+ miles.

Edit: Ever worked outside naked with a view?... it's nice.

This is the biggest limitation where I live. Can't do shit on satellite internet. If I had true highspeed it would open up a world of different job opportunities for me. Rural life is great but it also has its challenges.

[Cantih]

There was a conversation once, and it resulted in me tossing out the thought "BG Apartments". And while it's a fun thought, I know it's not really workable, but a core of the idea always stuck with me.

Get a spot, set it up to keep rents low and density high, and draw in every person you can get where location doesn't really matter. Artists, musicians, coders, streamers, etc.

[chazzyphizzle]

so who is gonna pay rent, the coders? boom roasted

[Andalusian girls]

[guartz]

Cost of living is increasing. Pay is not, not proportionately. You can't really decrease the cost of living, but you can increase pay accordingly.

The complicated part of the problem is how closely tied together society makes them. If you increase pay, capitalism demands cost goes up because people can afford it, so therefore profit is priority.

There ought to be a way to cap or slow this by reducing the disproportion.

ah good way to increase wages is to restrict where companies get their labor from, like say, limiting how and when they can import workers. You can reign in immigration that tends to import people who are willing to work for less, driving the wages down. You can make competing trade agreements with other nations, increasing the demand of your nation's goods, which results in companies seeking more labor to compensate for the demand in work. All these factored in and wages begin to increase, unemployment drops and it becomes the employee market.

you know, like what Trump is doing.

[archibaldcrane]

The academic evidence of immigration depressing wages is not convincing, most studies don't show this effect at all, or only show it for people without a HS diploma.