EVO 2020 - Still hatin', still watchin'

[Nitsuki]

Tbh, esports, sponsors, etc did suck a lot of the fun in games in general. Kinda why the fgc has been esports free for a while. It’s less about growing up, people want to keep with their roots, but cancel culture etc has made a lot of shit unbearable. I would say the fgc right now is how WWE first transitioned from the attitude era to the PG era, they want to keep their sponsors happy so they had to make everything less edgy. Not speaking in terms of safety or anything, just a general comparison. Which is why i make those statements and agree with Welt.

[Melena]

You can still be edgy and a shit talker without dropping N bombs or making homosexual comments in the name of joking. If being able to drop N bombs is necessary to keep your roots, your roots should be removed anyways. I was a kid in the heydays of arcades, and it was easy to have fun and shit talk without resorting to that crap.

[Nitsuki]

Well no shit, but people are so thin-skinned that easier to use, non-derogatory words such as “pussy ass thin-skinned bitches” will get people to cry to twitter. Lol

[Lucavi]

Tbh, esports, sponsors, etc did suck a lot of the fun in games in general. Kinda why the fgc has been esports free for a while. It’s less about growing up, people want to keep with their roots, but cancel culture etc has made a lot of shit unbearable. I would say the fgc right now is how WWE first transitioned from the attitude era to the PG era, they want to keep their sponsors happy so they had to make everything less edgy. Not speaking in terms of safety or anything, just a general comparison. Which is why i make those statements and agree with Welt.

Then you know what to do. Get rid of the sponsors and go back underground. Good luck feeding yourself, your kids and paying your bills with all of those fat stacks coming from the quarters ontop of the arcade cabinets.

You can have all the thick-skinned edge-speak you want to recreate your gritty nostalgia, or you can have tournaments sponsored by adult companies that have actual payouts. You can't have both anymore. Whine about cancel culture all you want. This is 2020. Strom Thurman and the racists whined just as hard in the 50's when they couldn't drag blacks out of their own homes and flog them. Shit changes. Change with it or fade away. Or go back underground in your bubble and enjoy your nostalgia.

As for me? All I care about - all I've ever cared about - is the skill involved in the matches themselves, and you don't need a bunch of racist and sexist edge-speak for that. Don't tell me that they can't grow up while still putting out an excellent product. Yipes is just as hilarious as he was 15 years ago on mic now, casting professional matches. Its called being talented. When you're charismatic, you could sell an audience on watching paint dry. Humor is humor. Hype is hype. A good match is a good match. A product isn't sterile or stale just because people aren't screaming bitch and faggot every 3rd word.

The FGC cries harder than the cancel culture. "Waaah! I can't call people faggots and pussies on twitch or twitter without repercussions! I can't perform an action without a reaction!"

[Nitsuki]

Or you know... get a real job and stay away from this market lol. Tho tbh normally a real job prolly wouldn’t pay as much.

Also Yipes says the N-word to this day, not as much but he says it on his podcast, etc. pretty sure he’s not racist right? Or is he now racist?

I don’t see him losing his commentator job at all, despite him saying it recently.

I’m not racist neither homophobic, nor are a lot of my friends, but damn Miami is totally riddled with people who say the N-word, old and young. Guess we’re all racist and cuban af. Or am i now racist in your eyes after knowing you for a while Luc because i said this?

[Weltall]

I don't see anyone arguing that people should be able to hurl out racist or sexist remarks lmao. I want FChamp (replace with whoever) to be able to call KBR a little bitch because that is what he is, and it result in some hype matches. The fact that FChamp was dumb enough to post that watermelon pic, without knowing what the immediate reaction and consequence would be, makes him so stupid that he should be suspended from sheer stupidity alone.

What sponsors did the FGC even have anyway? From what I could tell, a lot of sponsors and teams jumped on the FGC in the middle/end of the SF4 era. Once they realized that no money was being generated, they all dropped it. The last FGC tourney I watched had like....a shitty computer chair and headset, that was it. They would need to go PC to get any real sponsors. For the TOs that aren't completely out of business from Covid losses, next-gen hardware is probably going to accomplish that. I don't see someone like Big-E being able to buy a shit ton of PS5/XSX for whatever fighters are the mainstay next summer.

[Lucavi]

Well no shit, but people are so thin-skinned that easier to use, non-derogatory words such as “pussy ass thin-skinned bitches” will get people to cry to twitter. Lol

You just don't get it. Say “pussy ass thin-skinned bitches” at your office and see what happens. Its the same for these morons once they get sponsored. Sponsorship = your job. Twitch partnership = your job. Influencer = your job. Fuck up at your job and get canned. Make your job look bad and get canned.

If you don't like the fact that you can't say “pussy ass thin-skinned bitches" at your job (and yes, twitter counts as your fucking job if you're sponsored, the same as twitter counts as your job if you're working at any other company and they find out), then I don't know what to tell you, man. I've never worked at a single place where I could “pussy ass thin-skinned bitches” up and down the hallways and collect a paycheck at the end of 2 weeks. Maybe where you live is a bit different.

These guys can say as much shit as they want if they never want to be sponsored and never want to work at a place that wouldn't fire them upon finding out what they said. They can buy a bunch of cabinets, open a little greasepit arcade and faggot all night long until the roosters crow if they're fine with only getting paid to run the arcade.

You wanna call someone a bitch pre-match in front of a camera? Sure, just don't look for cash from that match unless its a money match. That, or go into UFC or WWE. You can do it lots there.

[Weltall]

You just don't get it. Say “pussy ass thin-skinned bitches” at your office and see what happens. Its the same for these morons once they get sponsored. Sponsorship = your job. Fuck up at your job and get canned. Make your job look bad and get canned.

If you don't like the fact that you can't say “pussy ass thin-skinned bitches" at your job (and yes, twitter counts as your fucking job if you're sponsored, the same as twitter counts as your job if you're working at any other company and they find out), then I don't know what to tell you, man. I've never worked at a single place where I could “pussy ass thin-skinned bitches” up and down the hallways and collect a paycheck at the end of 2 weeks. Maybe where you live is a bit different.

These guys can say as much shit as they want if they never want to be sponsored and never want to work at a place that wouldn't fire them upon finding out what they said.

I certainly see this viewpoint, but it also kills the scene. That is just the roots of the FGC. If people were playing Counter-Strike tourneys for $4k (I'd say thats average FGC tourney pot for a big game, without a bonus pot from a developer), no one would be watching that either. Without the shit talk and rivalries generated from it, the FGC just loses too much to make it interesting. If they had $250k tourneys every other month, that would carry it, but that isn't happening.

[Lucavi]

I certainly see this viewpoint, but it also kills the scene. That is just the roots of the FGC. If people were playing Counter-Strike tourneys for $4k (I'd say thats average FGC tourney pot for a big game, without a bonus pot from a developer), no one would be watching that either. Without the shit talk and rivalries generated from it, the FGC just loses too much to make it interesting. If they had $250k tourneys every other month, that would carry it, but that isn't happening.

As I said before, COVID forcing tournaments online combined with Japan's Xenophobic and selfish netplay design philosophy of (it works fine for me, so fuck the world: also world, please buy our shit) will kill the scene a hell of a lot more than people not being able to scream faggot from the rafters. There will always be the next generation of players wanting to be the best, but certainly not if its not worth playing online because the lag and frame delay is atrocious if you aren't living in the Iga province. Pretty sure people watched the shit out of Daigo v. Tokido matches, and I know enough Japanese to know they weren't calling each other niggas and cucks all day. Perhaps if Japan coughed up some cash for their own scene's tournies, the scene overall would be even bigger. But what the fuck do I know? Clearly I don't say bitch and pussy enough to understand the issue.

You believe your issue is the biggest factor and I believe mine is. We agree to disagree.

Let the goddamn scene die then. Adapt or die. Its the law of nature. Counter-Strike wouldn't have shit for viewers if every match lagged like a goddamn SF4 or DBFighterz match does, and you know it. Imagine a fucking Moba or FPS having 8 frames of lag and constant frame drops in the middle of a match. Heads would fucking roll. I can't even get an 1v1 online match against a guy 2 states away in Smash without it lagging to hell. Yet Japan gets a free pass from people because their shit could never stink because its Japan, baby! The rest of the entire world who develops games has figured out the net issue yet Japan is somehow the outlier and its fine because hey, its those whacky, kooky Japanese! Lets just blindly buy another ArcSys game yet complain 2 months later.

You want League esports money? You want Dota esports money? You want CSGO esports money? Fix the fucking games before you worry about not being able to drum up artificial hype by calling each-other bitch and faggot.

[Weltall]

Netcode is a top 1/2 issue for the FGC, so no we actually agree. Again, you're the only person I see mentioning sexist/racist remarks in any way, so no one is arguing in favor of that lmao.

The FGC was going to shit LONG before Covid too. The games, streams, and hype were almost all low tier, outside of Tekken 7. And when Tekken is the best thing you got going, you got problems.

[Lucavi]

Netcode is a top 1/2 issue for the FGC, so no we actually agree. Again, you're the only person I see mentioning sexist/racist remarks in any way, so no one is arguing in favor of that lmao.

The FGC was going to shit LONG before Covid too. The games, streams, and hype were almost all low tier, outside of Tekken 7. And when Tekken is the best thing you got going, you got problems.

How could they be anything other than low tier with all the other games out there to play? All the other avenues for people to get their fun in? All the other genres that have evolved beyond the FGC? All the other modernization that's taken place in other games, while the FGC still has games that struggle to make a goddamn tutorial properly, much less netcode.

Blame the companies who make the games, but damn, that'd mean blaming Japan, and we can't do that. You speak of hype in the scene? Where's the hype in the games themselves? The most hype ones are long in the tooth now and come with their own problems (FUCKING LAG, shit features to bring in new players) and the new ones feel more like "For Us By Us" rally-the-base titles with small improvements or simple graphical updates. The most hype fighting game series completely shit the bed in Infinite (ironic considering it has decent netplay), but yeah, if we drummed up hype by having Fchamp and Chris G get into a shit-talking war, it'd save the scene.

Also, keep in mind how old Dota and League are, as well as CSGO, but they keep raking in the global bucks. They certainly have something that all these Japanese fighting games don't. A few things, but lets keep it simple.

Adapt. Or. Die. There's too many other viable games and competitive scenes vying for people's attention. You don't get to coast on your ass as fighting games and just expect shit to flow like honey because you killed it in the 90's and then again with SF4. It's like VCRs getting pissed with CDs came around. Adapt or die.

Let me give you a hypothetical example: Lets say MVC2 makes a stunning and dramatic comeback in terms of popularity and fan appeal; one that could rejuvenate the scene. How could new fans of the game even access it? How could they play? How could they improve and play with their friends or grow the scene? This is what I'm talking about. Fighting games are pathetic when it comes to fostering a scene, because half of them don't even work online properly and the other half you can't even easily purchase anymore. Also, no balance changes. No patches to keep things fresh. No rotating metas or new additions. Just the same thing forever. But that's a hype issue, though. The scene could be saved if we just start shit talking more. Yeah.

[Weltall]

Yeah, I agree with all of that lol. I think the games suck now, lack hype, have terrible netcode, are far too easy, etc etc. I also think the player vs player hype is at an all-time low too. Both have killed off the FGC, long before Covid. Covid is the icing on the cake that will put the TOs out of business.

I don't see anyone unwilling to say Japanese games suck either. I posted in the newest Guilty Gear thread that the alpha/beta, whatever it was, was absolute shit.

It should be obvious that I think SFV is a pile of trash too.

[Lucavi]

Yeah, I agree with all of that lol. I think the games suck now, lack hype, have terrible netcode, etc, etc etc. I also think the player vs player hype is at an all-time low too. Both have killed off the FGC, long before Covid. Covid is the icing on the cake that will put the TOs out of business.

I'm glad we can agree. I love fighting games. I love them so much. It pains me to see it like this, but the blame goes to Japan. A spade is a spade, and I'm not going to hide behind the easy argument or low-hanging fruit.

You have to ask if the makers of the scene even WANT it to grow. Based on how Japan runs its ship, I'd say no. Now ask if Riot or Valve wants their scenes in League or Dota to grow.

[Jefe]

The real problem with the FGC isn't people having to act like adults in a public setting in order to make adult scratch, its Japan's obsession with only designing their games to be played in Japan, while releasing everything to the world and telling everyone to just deal with it. (...)

You're barking up the wrong tree. If you want a quick answer, that's how data transmission works.

Long: The more data travels, the more it's exposed to different factors (infrastructural, thermal, distance, etc.) that degrade the signal to different degrees. Let's quickly analyze one of them, distances. Try pinging to different locations (city over, state, etc.). You'll quickly find a pattern: data pockets take longer and longer to reach their destination (x->y) the farther they are. The answer it's self explanatory. Let's take it further and zoom in into a cpu. There exists a bunch of storage devices (registers) that speed up the instruction fetch (decode/execute) cycle just by residing in close physical proximity (reducing distance) to the cpu. Want a simple experiment? Try a pendulum.

[Lucavi]

Yes, I'm barking up the wrong tree. Japan is innocent and every other online game that hosts dozens to hundreds of people with minimal lag just runs off of space magic or future tech.

Honestly, now that I look at it, I have no idea how I can play Dead by Daylight with my EU friends, or play Dota with Brazillians and Russians in the same match without the game crawling along at 3 FPS.

Thank you, Jefe. Its good to know that Japan has nothing to work on.

[Moridam]

those other games with good netcode? well, actually, it's also bad you see

[Deejay]

Jefe, for a comp-sci person, you really are dumb as hell lol

[Moridam]

listen, it's not capcom's fault all the other game developers have uhh... transcended the laws of reality and simply refuse to share!

[Jefe]

I thought this was a fighting game related issue? Name a bunch of fighting games with good enough netcode that won't make you cry in every thread about the jps.

[Cantih]

Killer Instinct, Skullgirls, Mortal Kombat 10/11, Power Rangers Battle for the Grid, Them's Fightin' Herds, Garou: Mark of the Wolves, Melty Blood

Though Melty Blood is a fan launcher, not the unmodified game.