2020 Democratic Primary Clown Car Special III: 124 More Days of Bernie Refusing to Drop

[Gredival]

While I do agree Bernie supporters need to stfu about Warren.

If you're getting turned off a candidate because his supporters are vocal instead of because of his policies, boy do you have some other issues.

He has those types supporters because he is an ideology candidate. All he does is talk about revolution and how the others won't bring it. He cultivates the all or nothing attitude of his base.

And then after he spends months criticizing the establishment when he's finally forced out, you wonder why they won't care enough about voting out Trump to settle for unity?

He's causing active harm.

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[Kaslo]

I don't know her political history, has she been a proponent of and helped with passing legislation of Native American rights/improvements for their status? I'm clearly hearing skewed information one way then.

https://www.congress.gov/member/elizabeth-warren/W000817?q={%22subject%22:%22Native+Americans%22}&s earchResultViewType=expanded&KWICView=false

[archibaldcrane]

I don't know her political history, has she been a proponent of and helped with passing legislation of Native American rights/improvements for their status? I'm clearly hearing skewed information one way then.

Here's her native issues page on her campaign website (it's long)

https://elizabethwarren.com/plans/tribal-nations

[Tyrath]

He has those types supporters because he is an ideology candidate. All he does is talk about revolution and how the others won't bring it. He cultivates the all or nothing attitude of his base.

And then after he spends months criticizing the establishment when he's finally forced out, you wonder why they won't care enough about voting out Trump to settle for unity?

He's causing active harm.

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Oh I see you're already preparing your Bernie Bros cost us the election excuse because once again you have propped up a shit candidate.

[Gredival]

Yeah. The appropriate way of claiming native is having tribal membership, but of course this isn't how we talk about other ancestral issues for any other race. She fucked up because of this.

To be fair, have any minorities besides Native and Black had minimum blood quanta embedded by the government in order to access a right or entitlement?

[Gredival]

Oh I see you're already preparing your Bernie Bros cost us the election excuse because once again you have propped up a shit candidate.

It's not an excuse. It's assessing blame where blame is deserved.

We are accountable for the consequences of our actions.

Were it not for Ralph Nader running, Al Gore would have won. Ergo Ralph Nader is morally responsible for George W. Bush's Presidency.

Same thing applies for Bernie and Jill Stein being responsible for Trump.

Hillary is also responsible because she did a bad job campaigning (as are Gore and Kerry) and she prevented another better candidate from running.

[Guitarman]

It was more of a general you for voters choosing a candidate based on the perceived toxicity of the base.

Gotcha, I was mistaken, my bad.

[Tyrath]

It's not an excuse. It's assessing blame where blame is deserved.

We are accountable for the consequences of our actions.

Were it not for Ralph Nader running, Al Gore would have won. Ergo Ralph Nader is morally responsible for George W. Bush's Presidency.

Same thing applies for Bernie and Jill Stein being responsible for Trump.

Hillary is also responsible because she did a bad job campaigning (as are Gore and Kerry) and she prevented another better candidate from running.

Bernie campaigned for Hillary so you can take your running as a third party comparisons and....wait sorry was getting into mean Bernie Bro mode there for a second.

tl;dr So yes you're preparing your excuses for a shit candidate. Got it.

[Gredival]

Bernie campaigned for Hillary so you can take your running as a third party comparisons and....wait sorry was getting into mean Bernie Bro mode there for a second.

tl;dr So yes you're preparing your excuses for a shit candidate. Got it.

An endorsement and a campaign circuit that were rendered useless because he already convinced his base that their problems couldn't be solved by anyone but him by staying in the race four months too long and selling people on a theory of case that he was the only pancea since a merely functioning system wasn't worth it without "true radical" change.

Again, is it any wonder that they stayed home or wrote in a useless name?

[Zealot]

Oh I see you're already preparing your Bernie Bros cost us the election excuse because once again you have propped up a shit candidate.

Tyrath

More people are voting for him than the other guy.

Explain "propped up."

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[Tyrath]

Hillary lost because she was an uninspiring candidate and took certain key states for granted and didn't campaign there.

But whatever makes you feel better about your candidate losing man.

[Tyrath]

Tyrath

More people are voting for him than the other guy.

Explain "propped up."

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Sorry I'm not trying to sell any conspiracy theories here. Voted for. More people voted for him. But he's still a shit candidate.

[Gredival]

Hillary lost because she was an uninspiring candidate and took certain key states for granted and didn't campaign there.

But whatever makes you feel better about your candidate losing man.

After Bernie damaged her brand in those states.

He ran against the establishment. Trump also ran against the establishment.

He bears responsibility for at least some of the Obama to Trump switchers.

[Tyrath]

After Bernie damaged her brand in those states.

He ran against the establishment. Trump also ran against the establishment.

He bears responsibility for at least some of the Obama to Trump switchers.

No he doesn't. Hillary owns that responsibility for not being a good enough candidate to sway them.

Fuck off with damaging her brand bullshit. If Bernie won the nom and then lost in the general because democrats don't turn out for him, would you be blaming Biden and co. for damaging his brand by constantly pulling up the "he's not a real democrat" line? It's a primary, this is what happens.

If you can't turn around and unite your own party after you win the nomination, the fault isn't in the guy who ran against you in the primary. The fault is in the nominee for not being a good enough candidate.

[Gredival]

No he doesn't. Hillary owns that responsibility for not being a good enough candidate to sway them.

Fuck off with damaging her brand bullshit. If Bernie won the nom and then lost in the general because democrats don't turn out for him, would you be blaming Biden and co. for damaging his brand by constantly pulling up the "he's not a real democrat" line? It's a primary, this is what happens.

If you can't turn around and unite your own party after you win the nomination, the fault isn't in the guy who ran against you in the primary. The fault is in the nominee for not being a good enough candidate.

Yes I would. If it were clear Bernie had the best chance of winning, or the nomination process was over, and Hillary or Biden stayed in like Bernie did I would.

[Tyrath]

Perhaps you should go complain to the DNC about how their process lasts too long.

[Gredival]

Perhaps you should go complain to the DNC about how their process lasts too long.

My complaint is that the DNC can't just anoint the nominee without the idiotic peons saying they should get a role.

[Tyrath]

My complaint is that the DNC can't just anoint the nominee without the idiotic peons saying they should get a role.

Yeah and this is why you and I will never agree.

[Cantih]

"Guys, guys, Tammany Hall was FANTASTIC, lets bring it back!"

[Gredival]

"Guys, guys, Tammany Hall was FANTASTIC, lets bring it back!"

Elites and faith in them and elite institutions is what makes democracy functional.

https://escholarship.org/uc/item/8806z01m

But I'd rather just go back to the Philosopher King

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1497/1497-h/1497-h.htm