{COVID-19} Coronavirus Pandemic: Toilet Paper Rationing

[Psion]

I am not sure what the financial implications of a permanent restriction are and what legitimate business purposes they could serve, but I pretty much trust Warren's judgement.

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i'm not sure about the stock buyback thing either. that's one of the one's i'm on the fence about. i mean, i was thrilled about the whole healthcare benefits offer for fulltime employees being mandatory thing too... but then we wound up with companies deciding "oh let's just have everyone work 31 hours or less a week average hur hur!" and as an added bonus, "lets do rotating shifts because reasons, and also let's only release the schedule a few days ahead of time to keep people guessing and make it harder for them to work 2-3 part time jobs!" at which point the flaws in an otherwise good idea for workers were revealed.

[Antithesis]

fixed that for you. the bold is important, if only for my own amusement.

I specifically left out any colorful descriptors of McConell's potential death on purpose.

Speaking purely from an objective viewpoint with no emotions affecting my opinion; he is an utterly useless tool in Congress. The only reason he continues to be Majority Leader is because no one else wants the displeasure of holding that title under this administration. McConnell already eats enough shit from Trump and the other members know it.

At least, I hope that's why they haven't booted his ass out of the Senate. McConnell is fantastic at being an obstructionist and it has worked out splendidly for him this past decade. I don't think he's gotten the message that obstructionism doesn't fly in a crisis situation like this.

He's robbed me of whatever joy I'd get in his Final Destination-esque death. I'd rather he dies in his sleep or something, it make headlines for two days and the world moves on and forgets him so we can try and get something done without him constantly blue balling everyone.

[Cantih]

I do kinda hope someone punches him in the jaw.
He deserves it.

Anyways, Senate went to the floor a few hours ago, McConnell wanted to schedule another vote on the bill 15 minutes after the markets open for optics reasons. Got shut the fuck down, Senate reconvenes at noon tomorrow.

[Gredival]

And here everyone was making you out to be some sort of unreasonable douchebag.

You're OK Gred.

If it wasn't clear, my opposition to Bernie is primarily a practical matter moreso than ideological opposition. I embrace neoliberalism and capitalism because I think they are empirically proven to be the best vehicles for upwards social and economic progression and I am too cynical to believe an alternative is possible within this lifetime.

I embrace Warren and Clinton style regulation of capitalism because I believe the very thing that makes capitalism function (self-interest) can be wildly destructive if left unchecked because entities are governed by individual persons who have different interests than the entities themselves.

The other half of my opposition to Bernie is that he's either naive or a simpleton.

[Antithesis]

If it wasn't clear, my opposition to Bernie is primarily a practical matter moreso than ideological opposition. I embrace neoliberalism and capitalism because I think they are empirically proven to be the best vehicles for upwards social and economic progression and I am too cynical to believe an alternative is possible within this lifetime.

I embrace Warren and Clinton style regulation of capitalism because I believe the very thing that makes capitalism function (self-interest) can be wildly destructive if left unchecked because entities are governed by individual persons who have different interests than the entities themselves.

The other half of my opposition to Bernie is that he's either naive or a simpleton.

I pretty much agree with all of this. I'd say I'm a little more optimistic to the idea of big changes but it's hard to argue with you on this.

EDIT: If there is one silver lining to the pandemic it's that I no longer have to listen to BernieBros yapping about how he can "totally still win this guys!" even though the voters have shown they don't want him. I love Bernie but I am pretty fed up with his rabid base.

[shepardG]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1166186

Can we bring back "smooth move, exlax" for news like this?

did this ever go away??? lol

[shepardG]

If it wasn't clear, my opposition to Bernie is primarily a practical matter moreso than ideological opposition. I embrace neoliberalism and capitalism because I think they are empirically proven to be the best vehicles for upwards social and economic progression and I am too cynical to believe an alternative is possible within this lifetime.

I embrace Warren and Clinton style regulation of capitalism because I believe the very thing that makes capitalism function (self-interest) can be wildly destructive if left unchecked because entities are governed by individual persons who have different interests than the entities themselves.

The other half of my opposition to Bernie is that he's either naive or a simpleton.

hmm... I dunno, I think he's pretty much you without the pessimism/cynicism.

[Ksandra]

I think the bailout on cruises et. al. is based on whether people actually know people who are affected by this.

Princess Cruises' cooperate offices are in my city. I know several awesome people who are now out of work due to this pandemic. And as AG said, this isn't because the cruise line did something dumb and didn't know how to handle a business. It's because of an unexpected emergency world-wide situation. This is actually what I think gov't should be primarily about. Fixing unexpected shit like this.


With that being said, the gov't better start stepping up fast to help also small businesses. We shouldn't just target specific groups as tons are getting hit right now.

[Zeb]

The John Hopkins website tracking the virus updated the US and now shows per county instead of state.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

[Aerin]

So can someone lay out where the gaps between the parties are? I don’t understand why the bailout for certain industries went from 50B to 500B, do they alone need that much? Schumer was saying that this proposal also fails to protect healthcare workers. What does this proposal do/not do for healthcare workers?

[6souls]

So can someone lay out where the gaps between the parties are? Schumer was saying that this proposal also fails to protect healthcare workers. What does this proposal do/not do for healthcare workers?

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...ongress-141360

According to a senior Democratic aide, the party's concerns with the GOP proposal center on $500 billion for corporations; stock buyback language that can be waived by the Treasury secretary; only a two-year time frame on executive compensation limits; and no provisions to protect individuals from eviction.

Democrats also object to what they say is an insufficient amount of money for state and local governments and providing only three months of unemployment insurance. Democrats initially asked for $750 billion in state aid, and Republicans have countered with far less.

Schumer and Pelosi are also seeking an additional $200 billion for hospitals and other health-care providers as part of a supplemental government spending bill included in the overall rescue package. The White House had initially sought $48 billion for federal agencies, and Republicans upped that total to $242 billion, including $75 billion for hospitals. Democrats want to further increase it to $450 billion.

While outstanding issues remain, Democrats are expected to get a win with $250 billion allocated to unemployment insurance. In addition, billions are expected to go to hospitals to address the influx of patients due to the pandemic. Schumer has called for a “Marshall Plan” for hospitals.

Sens. Marco Rubio (R-Fla) and Susan Collins (R-Maine) also reached an agreement in principle Saturday evening with Sens. Ben Cardin (D-Md.) and Jeanne Shaheen (D-N.H.), on the package’s small business provisions. The final deal on small businesses would amount to $350 billion, covering 58 million American workers and more than 30 million small businesses, Rubio tweeted Saturday.

Republicans are also pushing for $250 billion in direct cash payments to workers. Under the original GOP proposal, individuals and families would receive $1,200 and $2,400 in direct cash payments, depending on their income level. Sens. Josh Hawley (R-Mo.) and Mitt Romney (R-Utah) have raised concerns that the original language of the provision penalizes lower-income Americans who do not have a taxable income. But Republican aides say the issue will be resolved in the final text.

[shepardG]

@ Aerin
-Mainly there's no provisions to stop companies that are profitable, from artificially inflating their profitability by buying back their own stocks
-Nothing in the provision to stop business owning politicians (Trump being the most prominent, but not the only one R or D) from taking out loans for themselves (Aka, hella big conflict of interest)
-the bill stretches from 1Mar2020 through 31Dec2020 and for 6 months, no reporting about what business got what, or how much has to occur. So basically 6 months of snatch and grab loans, with no oversight
-The portion that gives money to everyday people like you and me isn't really giving it to us. It's going to be counted on our taxes, and we'll need to pay it back.
- charitiable food contributions go from a tax right off of 15% to 25%, but no accountability as to how much food you gave... a can of beans vs. a truck of beans is counted the same (I think, need clarifiaction, this shit hard to read)
- With some of the 50Billion portion, they're going to "setup an internet site that provides information on what alls happening with the virus... which is a god damn WASTE, as there are HUNDREDS of sites that do this accurately with total transperency already.
- Still reading.... fuck our government for making their gov. documents look like they belong in r/ihadastroke

[kuronosan]

@ Aerin
-The portion that gives money to everyday people like you and me isn't really giving it to us. It's going to be counted on our taxes, and we'll need to pay it back.

This is the most damning and obvious part right here. They don't give a shit about relief; this isn't something that is going to help anyone who lost a job, or is without income, or had any of that shit apply to them (because it's based on 2018 taxes), because essentially for a family of 4 they'll either get $3400, which they basically have to pay back next year, or they get next to nothing because they got a refund/didn't owe or make slightly too much money.

It's the same shit over and over again. Stop fucking voting for Republicans. Fuck these shitbags.

[shepardG]

This is the most damning and obvious part right here. They don't give a shit about relief; this isn't something that is going to help anyone who lost a job, or is without income, or had any of that shit apply to them (because it's based on 2018 taxes), because essentially for a family of 4 they'll either get $3400, which they basically have to pay back next year, or they get next to nothing because they got a refund/didn't owe or make slightly too much money.

It's the same shit over and over again. Stop fucking voting for Republicans. Fuck these shitbags.

it's true, i hope the dem's focus on that little bit. Can't call something Relief if 3 miles down the road, the flat tire you avoided blows out anyway.

[Kalmado]

Hold up. I haven't been paying much attention to the relief thing so please forgive me if this is a stupid question. So if in 2018 someone received a refund on their federal taxes, doesn't matter if it was $1, they get nothing right this minute? Is that correct?

[Jaybar]

I would have owed the government money in 2018 and 2019 except I deducted student loan interest payments which brought my taxable income way down, therefore getting money back. I swear to christ if they do some fuckery like the above I will be livid.

[Xno Kappa]

Oh man. I owed $2 in 2018. Does that mean I win free money lol?

[Fondue]

imagine conflating tax liability with your refund amount

[kuronosan]

Basically it's income redistribution disguised as disaster aid. If you didn't pay taxes (whether you received a refund due to overpayment or didn't meet the threshold) you get less, if anything at all. What's worse, the bracket is based on 2018. So if you were employed in 2018 but lost your job in 2019 or 2020 you might get nothing, which means you (the person who needs the help) wouldn't get shit.

It's horse shit. Just give money to everybody who filed taxes. Fuck.

[Tyche]

Where do you see that if you received a refund that you wouldn't get any money? I'm not buying that. A refund doesn't mean 0 tax liability.