SPOILERS Final Fantasy 7 Remake SPOILER THREAD - CURIOSITY KILLED THE CAT

[Tyrath]

Ya Barret learned all my enemy skills because I've always had the materia on him.

[Uzor]

Same.

[Yabby]

I never used a single RR earring on normal or hard wtf guys.

There is not enough useful materia in the game that you don't have enough room for a revive materia on 2 characters and arise costs 17 mp so unless you are really, really bad it wont actually tax your MP pool. The materia options are so bad I think I even had 2 MP+ materia on Barret.

I definitely am not doing a 4 minute boss rush clear. I went 1/1 on the entire thing but it took me like 40 minutes, but god damn. I don't mean to pull a "git gud" like salad but wtf are you guys doing?

Edit: I'm thinking to like the tonberry + bomb fight and I was legit terrible at it and was tossing an arise probably once every 60-90s and I don't think I ever came close to running out of MP.

I like to do a limit on my playthroughs to make it more challenging. I only had one raise materia. I only played with what was found or given, I didn't buy any extra Materia through normal/hard. I didn't pick up anything during the second playthrough.

[Aerin]

Are there really only 4 enemy skills you can learn in the game? The guides I’ve been looking at only have 4

[Tyrath]

Yes.

[Mertron]

yes, and the only skill i ever used was bad breath on the malboro after it used it

[Anoat]

Perhaps Enemy Skill materia will follow you into the sequel game(s). Give some people incentive to do Hard Mode. I can see it now. People doing Hard Mode in the new game plus of the sequel so they can go back and get the skill off Midgar Zolom.

[BerenTebogo]

Perhaps Enemy Skill materia will follow you into the sequel game(s). Give some people incentive to do Hard Mode. I can see it now. People doing Hard Mode in the new game plus of the sequel so they can go back and get the skill off Midgar Zolom.

Money says there is no Zolom scene. The entire point in the original was to give us a flavor of how big and bad and powerful sephy boi is because we know the square root of fuck all about him at that point in the game.

That will no longer be even remotely the case in the next part lol.

[Malithar]

I'd take that bet. With how much they splurged on the most random bosses in Midgar, I can't imagine they'd skip Zolom. Maybe they won't show the one on a spike, but the fight will certainly still be in.

[Vaspinne]

Yeah most definitely going to be a boss. Maybe not in the same story context as mentioned above but it'll be used for sure

[Myra_FFBE]

“The heresies of today will be the orthodoxies of tomorrow. The orthodoxies of today will be the heresies of tomorrow.” - Helen Keller

“Everything we do now will seem alarmist. Everything we do after will seem inadequate." - Michael Leavitt

“Anime was a mistake.” - Hayao Miyazaki

“Oh, yeah, girls like this exist in real life. If you don’t spend time watching real people, you can’t do this, because you’ve never seen it. Some people spend their lives interested only in themselves. Almost all Japanese animation is produced with hardly any basis taken from observing real people, you know. It’s produced by humans who can’t stand looking at other humans. And that’s why the industry is full of otaku!” - Hayao Miyazaki

The average anime and JPRG fan (“What if an American travels to Japan and doesn't want to leave?”): https://old.reddit.com/r/japan/comme...an_and_doesnt/

“I am curious what would happen if I traveled to Japan and just never left. I have not learned any Japanese language. But I respect the culture even if it is very different. If I show up Japan with enough money to last one month would I be able to build a life there or would I be forcibly removed from the country? I am a US citizen.”

“Do I convince a Japanese girl to marry me? I'd rather let such things occur naturally after I've built a life.” - The Average JRPG and Anime Fan

Spoiler: show

Okay, not to rag on this person. I like that he’s honest. I’ll be honest though, while I like Japanese media, I also think the fandom is the worst and is the dumbest about a lot of things. Not this guy specifically, but anime and JRPG discussions can get really dumb. Anime and Japanese media has been going downhill for a long time.

Helen Keller and and Michael Leavitt were ahead of their time predicting the trends of the Western Fans of Japanese media. It may seem alarmist now but tomorrow, everyone will imagine that they’ll be able to magically go to Japan, have English subs magically appear, and marry a random Japanese girl since that’s how all Japanese media depict self-insert Gary Stus meeting Anime Waifu Bait girls.

In fact, I’ll do a comparison of other characters vs Aerith in a bit later but these are just my thoughts.

I said I’d do this post (and originally I wanted to do so) but here it is.

Spoiler: show

Why I like Aerith (Moments in the game) - “This guy are sick” (this guy is sick), I like that Aerith is nice to her neighbors and looks out for anyone that is sick. She seems like a cool person to know IRL.

Why I don’t like how Aerith is used (in FF7’s story). Japanese Media Waifu Bait Checklist (or Purity Girl Checklist):

Spoiler: show

1. Has almost all positive qualities. Any negative quality is quirky and supposed to be likable rather than negative).

2. Only interacts with main male lead of the stories who is basically a Gary Stu.

3. If the character has any weaknesses or flaws, then the main male lead is the only person to show them their strengths, etc.

4. Never has any other prior friends or relationships except when the male lead shows up (Aerith did have Zack but he’s gone by the time Cloud showed up).

5. And most importantly, is also a plot device of a character for reasons she didn’t do on her own but are born with (special race, special powers, etc).

(I posted the above before but I’ll add a few more things):

6. The self insert male Gary Stu will also be the only one to value the Waifu Bait (or Girl Adoption Bait) female character. Every other male character (usually all the main villains) will devalue the Purity Girl Character so that the self-insert Gary Stu can swoop in and so how a true good guy can act.

7. The Purity Girl will also always bring the Self Insert Gary Stu happiness (will never do anything the Gary Stu will be unhappy with). They will never argue with the Gary Stu (if they do, only in a way the Gary Stu likes it), and they will never talk with or have a friendship with another male character (that is alive) other than the Gary Stu.

Other examples besides Aerith is Eri from My Hero Academia.

My Hero Academia is a popular anime, and what I consider the “Final Fantasy VII” of anime (that is, it’s flashy, has some deep themes as window dressing, but ultimately is a silly shonen where the characters resolve everything by getting power ups out of nowhere). Except now in today’s standards, a lot of BNHA fans also can note the flaws of the anime. Eri is pretty a devisive character, and I think what Eri represents can also apply to Aerith.

The problem with a lot of story telling - “Overjustification” (When you bribe kids to read by giving them Pizza Hut).

Aerith, Eri, <insert more Purity Girls here> all have one thing in common. They have absurd value to the plot for reasons that the heroes always want.

The problem is, is Aerith or Eri important because of their powers or are they important because of who they are? Are they important because of value they are born with, or do they have value because everyone should be important regardless of who they are? The fact the matter is, the plot and stories treats their value as what they are born with and not regardless of what they aren’t born with.

By giving the ultimate power to the “damsel in distress” and by making the ultimate power their main plot relevance, it devalues them as a character. It also makes the character less tangible.

How many people have met people like Aerith or Eri in real life (as Hayao Miyazaki says again “Oh, yeah, girls like this exist in real life”).

Besides that, I said this before in my Chrono Cross post earlier but there’s also a lot of double standards.

Clouds and friends probably have killed countless enemies. Enemies that are just doing their jobs, trying to get food on the table for their family.

So, Cloud and party goes down mowing enemies. Killing all animals too without care of concern on how it may or may not affect the ecosystem (the planet matters but not the animals). (Thankfully Chrono Cross addresses those concerns as the superior story telling game.)

Also, since the FF7 party are the good guys, no blood or gore is ever shown.

Sephiroth on the other hand (for some reason) kills enemies where blood does occur. Obviously, blood only occurs if the villains kill. When the good guys do it, it’s not as bad so no blood is shown (even though the good guys are clearly killing countless people and animals)

So, when Aerith dies to Jenova (as Sephiroth), everyone mourns. But what about all those Shinra Employees just doing their job? What about them and their families?

Besides that, another problem I have with OG FF7 is the majority of the story is goofy. I have a hard time remember serious stuff except “your waifu dies” because the majority of the game is goofy with some seriousness sprinkled in here and there. Cloud and friends goof off almost the majority of the time. FF7 is a Theme Park of entertaining antics but its storytelling has never been that great.

Anyway, I wanted to post this before but here are some good examples of characters like Aerith done right:

1. Rosalia (From Atlus’s most superior story telling game “Trauma Team”).

Spoiler: show

Go to 37 minutes and 21 seconds)

Spoiler: show

Why I like Trauma Team and Rosalia (Leon and Alyssa too) - Grounded Expectations (not Subverted Expectations but Grounded Tangible Expectations).

Rosalia and why I like her despite being a plot device character (because she’s also a good character on her own despite it).

Spoiler: show

To keep this kind of short and concise, what makes Rosalia interesting is her value to others around here. In Trauma Team, Rosalia is born with a defect to society. Rosalia is a burden to society. She’s the natural asymptomatic host of an unknown new type of a virus called the “Rosalia Virus” (named after her).

Now, that part may not be as tangible. What is tangible and relatable is that she has to deal with that burden by having to go in isolation, and just waiting for there to be a potential cure. (I timestamped in the video but as noted, she can’t wait to try to make friends.)

What happens is well, she just gets shot and killed anyway by her adoptive father. Her adoptive father (Albert) is dying from her own virus, and so, he has no choice as there’s no where they can go to. He has to kill her. It’s a mercy killing to her (as she has no where to go if he dies), and also a way to try to prevent her from being a burden to the world.

I mean, it’s all of a sudden and just happens. While Rosalia acts as a plot device, she also acts as a pretty good character on her own despite it as well. She’s just someone that wants to try to have value to society despite being born with a defect that makes her a burden (like a person that is born with a permanent sickness where their family members have to take care of them for the rest of their life). I mean, most people actually abuse disable and sick people in families. In this case, you can try to see the value in a person trying to have value in society despite not being born with the ability to do so.

It’s basically the reverse of someone like Aerith and Eri in that they are born with something that burdens society rather than benefits, but they still want to have value to others despite being born of that burden.

A good story can make a person change perspective about things, and maybe have another view on certain issues. Maybe people can understand people that are born sick better.

So, that’s why Rosalia is a good example of a plot device character done right (because she’s also a good character done on her own without her plot powers being the main source of her value).

2. Leon (again from Trauma Team).

Spoiler: show

Go to 16 minutes: http://<a href="https://www.youtube....drtY#t=16m</a>

I mean, another good death scene that is extremely tangible to real life. You are trying to save him, and telling him to go get better so that Leon can tell his family he loves them, etc. Of course, that can’t happen. He’s been infected, and they won’t let him out. There’s no known cure or medicine or anything. Despite that, Leon tells the doctor to learn everything that he can, as they want to keep the Rosalia virus a secret.

Again, it’s just something else that can help people understand other people’s perspective. The value of a person or animal or whatever.

3. Alyssa (From Trauma Team again). Damsel distress are so out of fashion these days. So popular media has replaced damsel distress with Purity Girls (as I mentioned above). In most media, a random innocent girl shows up with no family, the self-insert Gary Stu wants to adopt them right away as it’s the right thing to do.

Spoiler: show

Alyssa is someone that has no family but unlike most media it realistically portray that “looking after some random kid with no family is not something that most people would be willing to do. So, at first the protagonist is like “we have to find Alyssa a home because I don’t want to look after her”. I mean, it’s realistic and understandable (and besides, just because some random kid shows up doesn’t mean you have to look after them for the rest of your life).

Then, this happens.

Go to 25 Minutes and 4 Seconds:


So, the thing with Alyssa is that she is a regular girl. Unlike most Purity Girls in media these days, Alyssa was not born with any super plot important powers.

Alyssa tells the protagonist that she is here if they need her for anything, and the protagonist is like “yeah, that’s cool”.

The protagonist is the target of a bomb (hidden in the teddy bear), Alyssa takes it (on accident), and she blows up and takes the bomb for the protagonist instead of the protagonist.

So, for someone that seemed like a burden before (Alyssa), now she shows how what she really means. Now, regardless though, even if Alyssa didn’t take the bomb, the fact that she just tries to have value to others (having no family left) is understandable. Another case of someone that seems like a burden that is doing their best to have value.

That, and another good death scene that comes out of no where. (Okay she doesn’t actually die from the bomb but still.)

Another problem I have with Aerith is that she really telegraphs that she is super important and that something may or may not happen to her. But not with Rosalia, Leon, and especially Alyssa (for examples).

Other special mentions of plot device characters done right (Nia and Pyra from Xenoblade 2, Elle and Luka from Brave Exvius, etc).

Anyway, this is the post I wanted to make. It is really long but I hope you like it. Again, the reason for this post is that I really do like Japanese media but the Japanese media fandom is usually also the worse. I mean, Final Fantasy VII, my Hero Academia, etc, they can be entertaining but you can also point out the flaws and how the story telling has no proper cohesive. You can also point out when things are contradictory to the theme its trying to say (like when the story has double standards).

And that’s also why I’m fine with FFVII Remake’s new whatever plot. I really like Tetsuya Nomura. He’s seems like a good guy. And the rest of the SE team too. I think people really complain a lot about the dumbest things in Japanese media. OG FF7’s story was never really great. Same with a lot of Japanese media.

The fanbase for Japanese media is incredibly rude and lack self-awareness at times. And that’s why I wanted to make this post (plus I also want to save this for later as reference for myself too for future discussions as well). Also, I know the previous posts haven’t discussed the plot as much but again, I wanted to post this since I said I wanted to do a comparison between Aerith (and Eri for examples) vs other characters and I just wanted to get this done.

[Prothescar]

what the fuck

[Myra_FFBE]

what the fuck

Hey dude, I just wanted to do a comparison of Aerith vs other characters which I said I wanted to do earlier.

[Ksandra]

Is this a bot?

Did it explode?

Wtf is happening?

[Myra_FFBE]

Is this a bot?

Did it explode?

Wtf is happening?

Nah, just a long continuation of what I wanted to post earlier about OG FF7’s story. That, and I also wanted to talk about how Atlus should rerelease Trauma Team on newer consoles.

[Roundelk]

That's a lot just to say Aerith is written like pure dogshit I agree but still.

[AoE]

Y'all can't even be mad at homie when most of us are stuck in quarantine.

[BerenTebogo]

[Insanecyclone]

Legit thought it was spam when I scrolled down until I saw aerith in a sentence.

[Gredival]

It's like a really bad HS essay