Random Thoughts

[Andalusian girls]

nerds

[Gredival]

Build the wall and send them all back, make debate great again.

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[Andalusian girls]

again doing a lot of lifting

[Demosthenes]

I agree with debate having value, but debate in mainstream needs to move away from pithy shit and glib gotchas.
Unless the debate is specifically about race or something that can be solved by the elimination of racism, it shouldn't be fucking hard to say, "Yes, we all know that racism exists. Yes, we know that it's institutional for a lot of situations, and yes we all agree that it is bad, at least I'd like to think so. Racism seeps into all aspects of society, but solving racism alone isn't going be a salve for all the ills of mankind. You can bring up racism to strengthen your argument and kill two birds with one stone, but you also need to outright debate your point without it as well. What arguments would two people of the same race, gender and sexual orientation make against each other on this topic."

[Zetanio]

I agree with debate having value, but debate in mainstream needs to move away from pithy shit and glib gotchas.
Unless the debate is specifically about race or something that can be solved by the elimination of racism, it shouldn't be fucking hard to say, "Yes, we all know that racism exists. Yes, we know that it's institutional for a lot of situations, and yes we all agree that it is bad, at least I'd like to think so. Racism seeps into all aspects of society, but solving racism alone isn't going be a salve for all the ills of mankind. You can bring up racism to strengthen your argument and kill two birds with one stone, but you also need to outright debate your point without it as well. What arguments would two people of the same race, gender and sexual orientation make against each other on this topic."

lemme tell ya, they don't wanna fuckin hear that.

[Zetanio]

rhetoric, logic, and understanding the structure of questions are becoming lost arts. i'm not claiming to be a master of any of them but being aware of the general theses on how to approach constructive debate and dialogue is important for a functioning society.

i just deleted a whole story but the point was, people just yell past each other without considering the inputs of the other's starting point.

walk a mile in their shoes etc.

[Gredival]

I agree with debate having value, but debate in mainstream needs to move away from pithy shit and glib gotchas.
Unless the debate is specifically about race or something that can be solved by the elimination of racism, it shouldn't be fucking hard to say, "Yes, we all know that racism exists. Yes, we know that it's institutional for a lot of situations, and yes we all agree that it is bad, at least I'd like to think so. Racism seeps into all aspects of society, but solving racism alone isn't going be a salve for all the ills of mankind. You can bring up racism to strengthen your argument and kill two birds with one stone, but you also need to outright debate your point without it as well. What arguments would two people of the same race, gender and sexual orientation make against each other on this topic."

"Your model of debate leaves no room for the negative team to engage" is a key argument.

Being able to say "As debaters of color/LBGTQ, it is particularly hard for us to debate you because it would force is to deny the veracity of truisms. That proves why debate should be about neutral subjects." is very potent, but not available to every debater as a rebuttal unfortunately.

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[Gredival]

The worst thing is when your plan for the topic would help communities of color and these people still say you should lose because the terms under which you are extending that help are embedded in institutions of white interest.

I shit you not, this is on my Facebook feed right now from someone who specializes in teaching black debaters to call debate racist (which prompted me to come and talk about it).

"A Black person could metaphorically suffering, struggling, stressed, feeling undervalued, on verge of breaking down physically and/or mentally and in order for that help to come from a "well meaning" white person (s) their interests have to converge through a facade of fairness, equity, and produce uneven power dynamics through their own narcissistic incompetence..."

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[Zealot]

If the person suffering is offered well-meaning aid, is it not better to accept the aid regardless of source, especially if said aid is, as you yourself argue, well-meaning in nature, than to continue to suffer and lament uneven power dynamics? Furthermore, if accepting the aid is the difference between the suffering, struggling, stressed, undervalued Black person continuing as they are or taking a step closer towards leveling the power dynamics between them, is it not in their best interest not just to accept the aid from the well-meaning white person, but exploit it to their utmost advantage?

[Zetanio]

If the person suffering is offered well-meaning aid, is it not better to accept the aid regardless of source, especially if said aid is, as you yourself argue, well-meaning in nature, than to continue to suffer and lament uneven power dynamics? Furthermore, if accepting the aid is the difference between the suffering, struggling, stressed, undervalued Black person continuing as they are or taking a step closer towards leveling the power dynamics between them, is it not in their best interest not just to accept the aid from the well-meaning white person, but exploit it to their utmost advantage?

no they should fuckin complain about the system some more in debate club.

[Gredival]

If the person suffering is offered well-meaning aid, is it not better to accept the aid regardless of source, especially if said aid is, as you yourself argue, well-meaning in nature, than to continue to suffer and lament uneven power dynamics? Furthermore, if accepting the aid is the difference between the suffering, struggling, stressed, undervalued Black person continuing as they are or taking a step closer towards leveling the power dynamics between them, is it not in their best interest not just to accept the aid from the well-meaning white person, but exploit it to their utmost advantage?

The response is literally



And we should win for you proposing that we accept the system.

It really is nauseating and it's why I can understand (to a small degree) how white males might feel "reverse racism" exists.

[Gredival]

Anyway, the Dean of Curriculum and the Vice Principal were both involved in helping me draft the email in which I told the kid no. Then the kid's dad complained to the school President so now I gotta go talk to the Dean of Faculty about the situation.

[Zealot]

Accepting the system as is provides the only viable tools for changing the system, and if you think that's racist, you're a stupid dumb dumb, probably because of your inferior genetics.

[Xno Kappa]

World bending over backwards for this Israel/Gaza nonsense but no one gives the slightest fuck about Haiti.

[Krandor]

Haiti is basically completely controlled by gangs at this point right? Renders outside aid impossible without a major military presence.

[Xno Kappa]

A failed state but fuck it. Let the Dominicans and the Kenyans somewhat handle it.

[Xno Kappa]

But yeah. Something something Palestinans.

[Krandor]

Haiti's collapse is kind of its own fault (I mean obviously there was the massive earthquake back in 2010 that got them to this point).

Granted Palestine's current situation is a lot of their own fault as well, but it still provides an oppressor narrative that the internet loves so much to rally around.

[Krandor]

Ok and there was the cholera outbreak the UN caused.

So maybe a little less "their own fault"

[Andalusian girls]

an oppressor narrative