George Floyd Murder by Cop

[kuronosan]

I was driving down the road the other day and a dude just flies through a light with a cop watching. Miles down the road a black dude is pulled over for who knows what.

Sath is right. What crimes are the police preventing? I've had personal experience calling the police who treat my concerns like a waste of time (witnessed a hit and run and they said they'd look into it very dismissively, other times asked if I could family to handle domestic disputes, meanwhile a white lady calls the cops on a black dude for walking through the park and being scary and they flock like fucking seagulls) and can't think of a single time they resolved anything.

My largest concerns were murder and grand theft. But then guess what happens when you call in someone missing? "Well they usually turn up in 48 hours so just give it time".

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[archibaldcrane]

Besides conflating peaceful protests with the commies who want to defund police force is just wrong.

When I think communism, I definitely don't think of police

[archibaldcrane]

A blue haired social worker is going to come throw me in the gulag

[Zealot]

Wanting a powerful heavily armed police force that can enact capital punishment with impunity simply to make an example to other citizens is the opposite of how things are under communism, it's true.

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[Andalusian girls]

you are so beautiful

[guartz]

You don't understand what defund the police means.

It's not about abolishing police. Yes, there are radicals who want to tout it as such, but that's simply not true.

It's primarily reallocating funds to the root of the problems. Poverty, education, etc.

We need our children to be better educated, not more military grade weapons.

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Let's talk philosophy, because I think our root disagreement is there. Interestingly this argument is ancient.

My understanding is, the reason government has any authority at all is because they have the monopoly on violence in any particular region, indeed this is how we define the state, courtesy Max Weber.
If it becomes easy for organized groups to match or exceed this monopoly, the citizens loose their legal capacity to what we now consider criminal enterprises. Think racketeering and organized crime.

Now while I agree that competitive security forces and arbitration mechanisms would be more morally just, because of the competitive nature it creates, practically speaking it's a dead goose and society is not ready for that.

Better approach, imho, is not nerfing the police but adjusting what is considered a crime. California experimented with that a bit recently, I believe.

[Dimmauk]

Biden is against defunding the police. Sorry for your land slide Gaurtz

[Gredival]

Obligatory but correct, shouldn't have to dilute the message to make it palatable for "allies" who only support shit when it's emotionally easy.

Tone policing is only available to those in power. The whole point is that they need to give up that power -- all of it -- so yeah, fuck off and leave the phrase alone.

When those allies are key to winning the election and will abandon you and vote for the other guy when they get scared (like what happened in 1968 with Nixon using the riots to scare white people and 1988 with Bush using Willie Horton to erase Dukakis' 17 pt lead), yes their fragility is important.

Got to plan around the world as it is, not the way you want it to be. Or else you wouldn't need protests to begin with.

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[Gadritan]

Let's talk philosophy, because I think our root disagreement is there. Interestingly this argument is ancient.

My understanding is, the reason government has any authority at all is because they have the monopoly on violence in any particular region, indeed this is how we define the state, courtesy Max Weber.
If it becomes easy for organized groups to match or exceed this monopoly, the citizens loose their legal capacity to what we now consider criminal enterprises. Think racketeering and organized crime.

Now while I agree that competitive security forces and arbitration mechanisms would be more morally just, because of the competitive nature it creates, practically speaking it's a dead goose and society is not ready for that.

Better approach, imho, is not nerfing the police but adjusting what is considered a crime. California experimented with that a bit recently, I believe.

You're still thinking in extremes. To think the police would be out gunned if they lose even $1b nationally from their budget is being willfully ignorant.

There is a TREMENDOUS amount of waste.

Reducing their budget would force them to become efficient and focus in what they actually need.

Most of my family is in law enforcement. They fully support this move. I've spoken with most of them already, because I can't take a side without understanding both. While they fully support the move, they can't voice that opinion for fear of repercussions, which is disgusting and sad. They've all seen it. They're all ashamed they never stepped in. For all I know they may have even been the perpetrators in various incidents.

But they see the waste. They see the injustice. They want this change.

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[guartz]

You're still thinking in extremes.

I really just have Minneapolis City Council as a go to, but what you say is pretty reasonable in contrast to them.

[Gadritan]

I really just have Minneapolis City Council as a go to, but what you say is pretty reasonable in contrast to them.

They're goal isn't to eliminate the police there from what I understand. They're dismantling to rebuild, not eliminate.

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[Gadritan]

I really just have Minneapolis City Council as a go to, but what you say is pretty reasonable in contrast to them.

Thanks for conceding that point btw. That's a huge step forward. There's so much misinformation out there it's insane.

For example, would you believe that many of the people protesting are staunch Trump supporters? One of the organizers has made a point in many of his speeches to not make this a left and right issue. It's a human rights issue.

They openly discuss every night to be wary of left trying to weaponize this movement.

"The Clinton's, Soros, they never gave a damn about you before. What makes you think they give a dam now? You're nothing but a tool to advance their agenda."

Exact words.

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[chazzyphizzle]

uhh

[Boyiee]

Police shouldn't make 100,000 plus a year, 30 plus sick and vacation days that carry over to the following year, get 100% disability/workers comp when injured in the slightest, and be able to cash out all their unused sick time for a mega check at retirement on top of their crazy pensions. 70% of the last 3 years of employment + health benefits for life. Defund that.

[Gredival]

They are going to say they have to risk their lives to do their jobs that's why they get those benefits.

Yeah tell that to the teachers doing active shooter training while working uncompensated overtime grading.

[Melena]

Gotta love that 3% at 55 for public safety (fire typically gets the same treatment). My dad started so long ago, when he retired in 2009, he was one of the few remaining people on Tier 1, so it was specifically just his last year. He purposely made sure he was working overnight for the 5% kick back for alternative shift. Last 3 months, he was only working 2 days a week because he had so much sick leave to burn, he was beyond the cash out cap.

[Rhyis.]

Honestly it's as simple as just laying off half the force and using those funds for better training. Yall got too many cops. DC with a population of 700k has 3k cops. That's quadruple what my city has with the exact same population. Chill that shit out and put better trained cops on the streets. Problem solved

[Gadritan]

uhh

Not my words. The point is the variety of beliefs out there is huge.

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[Yabby]

Police shouldn't make 100,000 plus a year, 30 plus sick and vacation days that carry over to the following year, get 100% disability/workers comp when injured in the slightest, and be able to cash out all their unused sick time for a mega check at retirement on top of their crazy pensions. 70% of the last 3 years of employment + health benefits for life. Defund that.

You forget that they are fully vested in 20 years. So once they hit 20 years, they "Retire" then go a county over and start working there for the same pay + retirement. Then they go for another 20 years to get vested in two different places.

[archibaldcrane]

Police shouldn't make 100,000 plus a year, 30 plus sick and vacation days that carry over to the following year, get 100% disability/workers comp when injured in the slightest, and be able to cash out all their unused sick time for a mega check at retirement on top of their crazy pensions. 70% of the last 3 years of employment + health benefits for life. Defund that.

Busting the union is the biggest part of defunding the police. What you build from the wreckage will be much more efficient.