George Floyd (II): Say His Name

[famine]

Those are the same things every retail employer tells all of its employees, and will fire you for not complying with in the event of a robbery.

[Uzor]

George Floyd was arrested 9 times for varying charges, some armed robbery and some theft charges (small ones like 50-500), some drug related (possession/intent to sell).

He didn't deserve to die, but lets not romanticize the circumstances here, he wasn't some poor, kind-hearted man driven to crime as a last resort to survive. At the point of his death, he was a man doing bad things who seems to have long since given up.

That's the point though; once you commit your first crime in America, that makes it extremely hard to escape the circle of crime due to the way society is structured. 91% of felons coming out of prisons lack reliable access to food, which lead to them returning to a life of crime to get said food. Everyone need to eat, after all, so their options are to either die, or steal.

I mean, in 1996, the Clinton administration issues a lifetime ban on SNAP for drug felons. That's a recipe for disaster. It's not until recently that states have begun reversing the ban. In West Virginia alone, 2100 drug felons were denied SNAP benefits in 2016, and Indiana reversed their lifetime ban as late as this year.

[Ksandra]

Now what may be a more controversial statement, I'm of the mind actions have consequences and people have a responsibility to be held accountable to their actions. There are people out there struggling every single day trying to give themselves, their kids or their family a good life in a shit system who don't turn to drugs, crime, armed robbery, etc. Who just take beating after beating and somehow get by... and sometimes they don't. So, to me, your circumstances, while they can be tragic, aren't an excuse in my eyes.

Spoiler: show

Any case anyone has the memory of a goldfish and forgot the second 'paragraph', this isn't a justification for his death. As I've said way back in this discussion, George Floyd may have deserved to be in prison, but not dead

At some point do we address the elephant in the room about intelligence?

I have had teens who have been through some legitimately messed up shit. Some have rised above and become amazing people. Some have let it drown them.

And you know what? 9 times out of 10 you can see the intelligence difference between the two groups. And this is not an insult. It’s a fact some brains are better equipped than others. Some have the natural capacity to learn and adapt. Some don’t. I mean you have to understand a lower IQ doesn’t mean Down Syndrome. There are fully functioning average people who do not have a quick thinking brain.

Which is why all that stuff about “some don’t do this” shouldn’t be a factor at all. Cops shouldn’t have that power demand of “obey at all costs or fear the physical consequences.”

I fully get you understand they went too far, but when we talk about the facts in this case we have:

It’s about $20
Cops at the time didn’t know if he spent it knowingly
They had his license plate
Sounds like they could have gotten his name, address, DL, hell car registration


They could have let him go then sent him a summons to court. The consequences could have simply been, instead of just paying back “$20” now you get to pay it back and do community service/drug rehab/something.

[Karbuncle]

At some point do we address the elephant in the room about intelligence?

I have had teens who have been through some legitimately messed up shit. Some have rised above and become amazing people. Some have let it drown them.

And you know what? 9 times out of 10 you can see the intelligence difference between the two groups. And this is not an insult. It’s a fact some brains are better equipped than others. Some have the natural capacity to learn and adapt. Some don’t. I mean you have to understand a lower IQ doesn’t mean Down Syndrome. There are fully functioning average people who do not have a quick thinking brain.

Which is why all that stuff about “some don’t do this” shouldn’t be a factor at all. Cops shouldn’t have that power demand of “obey at all costs or fear the physical consequences.”

I fully get you understand they went too far, but when we talk about the facts in this case we have:

It’s about $20
Cops at the time didn’t know if he spent it knowingly
They had his license plate
Sounds like they could have gotten his name, address, DL, hell car registration


They could have let him go then sent him a summons to court. The consequences could have simply been, instead of just paying back “$20” now you get to pay it back and do community service/drug rehab/something.

Understandable. Though we do agree on some ground here. I never claimed cops should have fucking Wild West Sheriff powers, and have actually said in the past I'm all for police reform from top to bottom to weed out as many bad apples as possible. I'm all for Cops being held accountable too, if that wasn't clear. I also said in that post reforming our Police System (not in those exact words) would also be welcome and necessary.

Still idk, George Floyd wasn't some kid who made a bad choice and could turn around. He was a 40 something year old man who made a lifetime of bad choices, drug abuse, and varying degrees of criminal activity. He didn't deserve to die, he didn't deserve the treatment he got, the police were in the wrong and deserve to be in jail, I simply don't see him as a someone who was a "good person". That doesn't change how I feel about the situation, or how I feel about Reforms, I still agree despite the man being an unsavory individual that his situation further shines light on a problem in our country.

But, I guess that gets to the root of how I feel, I believe George Floyd belonged in Prison, at least until a point that under some professionals opinion he was "Rehabilitated" and could come back with a hypothetical opportunity for a straight and narrow life. Which if I'm being honest at his age and with his record would be "He'll die in prison".

Edit: I'm a little pissed my image won't show up. TBH, but I'll save it for later.

That's the point though; once you commit your first crime in America, that makes it extremely hard to escape the circle of crime due to the way society is structured. 91% of felons coming out of prisons lack reliable access to food, which lead to them returning to a life of crime to get said food. Everyone need to eat, after all, so their options are to either die, or steal.

I mean, in 1996, the Clinton administration issues a lifetime ban on SNAP for drug felons. That's a recipe for disaster. It's not until recently that states have begun reversing the ban. In West Virginia alone, 2100 drug felons were denied SNAP benefits in 2016, and Indiana reversed their lifetime ban as late as this year.

I can understand your stance here. I do think theres a LOT of room for progress when it comes to our Prison systems and how we treat criminals in our society. While I still think George Floyd would probably have been a lost cause due to his age, I'll admit his circumstances could be very different if on the first arrest he got "help". We both accept some people are not rehabilitate-able, even countries with excellent programs still see repeat offenders, I think we also both agree that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

I think if we discuss the changes we can make to prevent future "George Floyd's", we'd both see eye to eye on a lot of reform that would be needed, even if we don't quite agree 100% on the man himself.

[Uzor]

I can understand your stance here. I do think theres a LOT of room for progress when it comes to our Prison systems and how we treat criminals in our society. While I still think George Floyd would probably have been a lost cause due to his age, I'll admit his circumstances could be very different if on the first arrest he got "help". We both accept some people are not rehabilitate-able, even countries with excellent programs still see repeat offenders, I think we also both agree that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

I think if we discuss the changes we can make to prevent future "George Floyd's", we'd both see eye to eye on a lot of reform that would be needed, even if we don't quite agree 100% on the man himself.

Oh, absolutely. Some people enjoy committing crimes and will never change, but I don't believe that's a majority.

Also; Fuck sex traffickers, murderers, child molesters and other scum of the earth. They can rot for all I care, although I suppose the political correct thing to say would be to give them a second chance...

[6souls]

s
Glad all these protests have helped people reflect and fight for justice for the innocent. SO great to see the great reduction in violence. Minneapolis is seeing such low crime it is unprecedented.
/s

https://www.vox.com/2020/8/3/2133414...virus-pandemic

https://twitter.com/KyleHooten2/stat...90875119661062

https://kstp.com/news/you-do-whateve...-2020/5809813/

Those tips weren't released by the local government, instead it was from the Third Precinct division of the Minneapolis police department.

[6souls]

But, I guess that gets to the root of how I feel, I believe George Floyd belonged in Prison, at least until a point that under some professionals opinion he was "Rehabilitated" and could come back with a hypothetical opportunity for a straight and narrow life. Which if I'm being honest at his age and with his record would be "He'll die in prison".

https://www.texasmonthly.com/news/ho...loyd-dj-screw/

He did serve time in prison and was paroled in 2013 where he moved to Minneapolis to attempt to turn his life around.

[Milkster]

Understandable. Though we do agree on some ground here. I never claimed cops should have fucking Wild West Sheriff powers, and have actually said in the past I'm all for police reform from top to bottom to weed out as many bad apples as possible. I'm all for Cops being held accountable too, if that wasn't clear. I also said in that post reforming our Police System (not in those exact words) would also be welcome and necessary.

Still idk, George Floyd wasn't some kid who made a bad choice and could turn around. He was a 40 something year old man who made a lifetime of bad choices, drug abuse, and varying degrees of criminal activity. He didn't deserve to die, he didn't deserve the treatment he got, the police were in the wrong and deserve to be in jail, I simply don't see him as a someone who was a "good person". That doesn't change how I feel about the situation, or how I feel about Reforms, I still agree despite the man being an unsavory individual that his situation further shines light on a problem in our country.

But, I guess that gets to the root of how I feel, I believe George Floyd belonged in Prison, at least until a point that under some professionals opinion he was "Rehabilitated" and could come back with a hypothetical opportunity for a straight and narrow life. Which if I'm being honest at his age and with his record would be "He'll die in prison".

Edit: I'm a little pissed my image won't show up. TBH, but I'll save it for later.



I can understand your stance here. I do think theres a LOT of room for progress when it comes to our Prison systems and how we treat criminals in our society. While I still think George Floyd would probably have been a lost cause due to his age, I'll admit his circumstances could be very different if on the first arrest he got "help". We both accept some people are not rehabilitate-able, even countries with excellent programs still see repeat offenders, I think we also both agree that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

I think if we discuss the changes we can make to prevent future "George Floyd's", we'd both see eye to eye on a lot of reform that would be needed, even if we don't quite agree 100% on the man himself.

He had his daughter and was staying relatively clean. Things can change in a person's life and you just reading about the crimes he did 7+ years ago doesn't show you what he did and who he was trying to become in the time he was on parole and staying out of jail.

So addiction is something people need to instantly and always have under control to gain your support? Weren't we months deep into a life and societal altering pandemic when Floyd died?

https://www.ajmc.com/view/the-escala...t-alternatives

Looks like it's become worse everywhere as a means of coping.

[D44kpunk]

relatively clean in this case means doing the meth

[Dimmauk]

Black people on drugs =criminals
White people on drugs= opioid epidemic

[Day]

whats a white person on meth in that equation

[guartz]

So far BLM is 0/2 on catch phrases

[6souls]

So far BLM is 0/2 on catch phrases

How so?

[guartz]

Well you got the hands up don't shoot, and the I can't breathe which seemed legit at the time but then we got more info and it fluttered away.

[Dimmauk]

Well you got the hands up don't shoot, and the I can't breathe which seemed legit at the time but then we got more info and it fluttered away.

Says who? And how so?

[6souls]

Well you got the hands up don't shoot, and the I can't breathe which seemed legit at the time but then we got more info and it fluttered away.

I can't breathe is still legitimate. Hands up, don't shoot has evolved as it's been proven that officers will still shoot even with your hands up.

[Kaslo]

whats a white person on meth in that equation

the midwest

[Guyverarmor]

whats a white person on meth in that equation

The bible belt

[Day]

relatively clean bible belt*

[Kaslo]

Bible Belt ChristiansTM are some of the biggest drug users I know