George Floyd (II): Say His Name

[Karbuncle]

If you want to argue people who vote and support Trump are racist fine, be my guest, you wouldn't even have to try hard as they don't make it easy to defend them. But the Left and Far Left come with a lot of baggage that drive people away at least toward center too. I could list many grievances i have with the left, I could list many things i agree with them on too... the same could be said for the right, but they are too numerous and I'm relatively certain we've had this discussion before.

[BerenTebogo]

If you want to argue people who vote and support Trump are racist fine, be my guest, you wouldn't even have to try hard as they don't make it easy to defend them. But the Left and Far Left come with a lot of baggage that drive people away at least toward center too. I could list many grievances i have with the left, I could list many things i agree with them on too... the same could be said for the right, but they are too numerous and I'm relatively certain we've had this discussion before.

Some of the radical libbies do have their issues, yes. No doubt.

I think we need to step back a bit and say "I'm a fiscal conservative and I want to keep my money so I support the conservative party on these issues but maybe it is more important to solve the problem of innocent civilians being murdered by the cops first and worry about tax law second."

And I know it is ridiculous to assume that multi-millionaires give a shit about this issue and they're going to vote red all the way down to suit their bottom line but it's just...you know...we get to call them a shitty fucking person.

The two party system is inherently flawed in this way. You don't go into a Red Sox v. Yankees game and say "man I hope the Orioles win today I hate both these guys" like that just isn't an option. It's one or the other. But in this metaphor the Yankees are the Yankees and the Red Sox aren't the Yankees.

[Yabby]

You don't have to be a single issue vote. Change starts from the bottom up. You can vote for people who will do the least evil while supporting more progressive issues that are personal to you at the state and local levels.

Very true, sadly one big problem we are running into now is that local new media is slowly dying. This means information is getting harder and harder to come by, and finding the right information is hard. Mainly for the older generations that don't understand the internet too well. Add in the fact that those that do find the internet, and can seek local articles will normally be sent down a rabbit hole that they don't understand can be lies. I've tried explaining certain things to my Grandparents when they started showing me articles they were reading, it was really hard for them to understand that what they were reading wasn't news, but opinion pieces from one person, with no desire to tell the truth.

This makes it hard for them to know who to really vote for, meaning they will do what they think is right. They will pick that one issue (Abortion), see that is attached to the right, and vote down the line.

I see your point with anti-abortion too. But consider this - pro-choice actually dramatically reduces the number of abortions that take place.

This is another thing I attempted to explain to them, but they always fall back to killing is killing. Kinda like when I tried to explain that sex education and easy access to condoms for young people would also lower abortion, but they still think abstinence is needed.

I really think it is just a waiting game right now. We have to wait for a large generation to die off before we can really change things. It is too hard to change someone's core believes that they have been told are true for 40+ years.

[6souls]

Draylo just comes off as regurgitating right wing rhetoric and media, cause I mean basically Draylo's argument every time things are discussed is the exact same shit I see from the first comment or two deep into any Twitter thread on politics. He's not entirely far right fringe like guartz, but he's probably only a couple months away from it.

He regurgitating content from the conservative echo chamber of AH. He has been posting videos over there from sources Guartz has posted here in the past.

[BerenTebogo]

We radicalized the lad.

Ladicalized.

[Kanriel]

There's also a key difference between the far left and the far right. The far right actually has elected representatives. The far left barely has any that qualifies. The Republicans like to call Romney, the 2012 Republican nominee for President, a RINO. That's how batshit crazy far right the Republican party has moved in less than two election cycles. Bernie got beat harder in 2020 than he did in 2016 and he's one of the few we have of the far left in the USA.

[Karbuncle]

Having only 2 real choices usually means you're gonna have to deal with issues you don't completely agree with. So like Yabby mentioned, if you're super strict on anti-abortion, you'd probably vote Republican even if you hate all the other shit they bring to the table but being less strict might have you weighing abortion vs everything else. The problem we see from most Republicans is that they don't care to denounce all the other shit they supposedly abhor.

If I considered myself a Republican, would it comfort you to know I absolutely abhor the Far Right? The actual Neo-Nazis, the actual Racists, the people who blindly hate those different than them? These people are dogshit subhumans but my definitions will differ from most people on the left as to what constitutes the labels I've described.

For instance, I live near a 7-11 that I've gone to for 20+ Years. Its currently owned by a Muslim man and his wife. Two extremely nice people, they only bought that store about 5~ years ago and have always been friendly when I go there. They're not greatly fluent in English but they know the language. Had a gangly white man come in to go look at their alcohol and get upset at the prices on them (Which were normal prices for all 7-11's) and storm out saying "Of course this shits overpriced its owned by <Racist slur>". I forget exactly what he called them but it was colorful... I told the lady behind the counter that its disgusting she has to put up with assheads like that, but she seemed pretty unphased by it and I think that might be the saddest thing of all, that its just kinda normal for her.

I think most people, I myself am guilty of this sometimes, see the severe baggage the far left has, are exposed to these loud, crazy, "Extreme Feminist" or "SJW" types and it creates a kind of tribal instinct to want to be against them at all costs because they spout rhetoric that seems insane. I may not always succeed but i TRY to see the reasonable arguments in the insanity. Not to be disingenuous, as most of the time I am quite certain that no force on Earth could convince me they have a leg to stand on, but there are some kernels of truth I see and I think those kernels are lost on people and they don't realize it.

I think Racism exists far more than most people are willing to admit, but most of the time its not out in the open, its not yelling slurs at you because of Average-Priced beers. At the same time, I'll argue til I'm blue in the fact that Racism against white people is every bit as bad as any other racism, a sentiment much of the left does not agree with.

I don't want to soapbox anymore, I have more to say, but it became rambling and unfocused... so maybe if I can gather myself I'll try again later.

Some of the radical libbies do have their issues, yes. No doubt.

I think we need to step back a bit and say "I'm a fiscal conservative and I want to keep my money so I support the conservative party on these issues but maybe it is more important to solve the problem of innocent civilians being murdered by the cops first and worry about tax law second."

And I know it is ridiculous to assume that multi-millionaires give a shit about this issue and they're going to vote red all the way down to suit their bottom line but it's just...you know...we get to call them a shitty fucking person.

The two party system is inherently flawed in this way. You don't go into a Red Sox v. Yankees game and say "man I hope the Orioles win today I hate both these guys" like that just isn't an option. It's one or the other. But in this metaphor the Yankees are the Yankees and the Red Sox aren't the Yankees.

I wish I was rich enough to feel like voting Republican was in my best interest. I'm not though.

[Melena]

Some of the radical libbies do have their issues, yes. No doubt.

I think we need to step back a bit and say "I'm a fiscal conservative and I want to keep my money so I support the conservative party on these issues but maybe it is more important to solve the problem of innocent civilians being murdered by the cops first and worry about tax law second."

And I know it is ridiculous to assume that multi-millionaires give a shit about this issue and they're going to vote red all the way down to suit their bottom line but it's just...you know...we get to call them a shitty fucking person.

The two party system is inherently flawed in this way. You don't go into a Red Sox v. Yankees game and say "man I hope the Orioles win today I hate both these guys" like that just isn't an option. It's one or the other. But in this metaphor the Yankees are the Yankees and the Red Sox aren't the Yankees.

Ding ding ding. Pretty much my voting record, though i'm of the if you support trump, i'm voting for whoever is running against you at this point.

[Byrthnoth]

The number of posers who convince themselves that Republican policies are financially good for them waaaaay outnumbers the handful of ultrawealthy that are actually benefitted by the policies.

[Melena]

The number of posers who convince themselves that Republican policies are financially good for them waaaaay outnumbers the handful of ultrawealthy that are actually benefitted by the policies.

Not necessarily republican. I've just seen way too many times for example a bond initiative go through, then watch the money get blown on stupid shit instead of what they said it was for, then come back and ask for more a few years later to finally do what they said the last one was for. So not necessarily voting republican, but still wanting to see some sanity go towards taxes.

[Cantih]

He regurgitating content from the conservative echo chamber of AH. He has been posting videos over there from sources Guartz has posted here in the past.

So, if we hadn't enabled Guartz to post the past year, this might not have happened?

[BerenTebogo]

The number of posers who convince themselves that Republican policies are financially good for them waaaaay outnumbers the handful of ultrawealthy that are actually benefitted by the policies.

Right. The upper middle class suburban men that make 100k-150k / yr get sucked into this and it's like...why my dude?!

[Yabby]

The number of posers who convince themselves that Republican policies are financially good for them waaaaay outnumbers the handful of ultrawealthy that are actually benefitted by the policies.

[Zealot]

Right. The upper middle class suburban men that make 100k-150k / yr get sucked into this and it's like...why my dude?!

I would never.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[6souls]

So, if we hadn't enabled Guartz to post the past year, this might not have happened?

Not necessarily. Draylo's opinions have always been bad. For instance there is three pages spanning 11 years with Draylo mentions in the mod section while Guartz has two pages over 11 years.

[Tomiko]

He just makes silly assumptions and is trying to bait me, why would I engage in that?

Not really trying to bait you (I'll admit those first 2 responses were cheap shots though), I'm just calling you out for how you're acting here.

I question why you would engage with Sath directly calling you a stupid idiot, but you do it anyways. Guess you really are a stupid idiot then.

I know you guys have fun picking on Draylo for some reason, but the dude who was baiting Draylo did heavily imply anyone political "right" of "Center Left" was Racist. Thats a pretty big dumb if you ask me, I wouldn't engage with him either lol.

Where did you get me implying "anyone political "right" of "Center Left" was Racist" when I'm talking directly to Draylo? Pretty sure HC and Guartz fit that description more than him and I don't consider either to be racist.

I do find it interesting that this is the 2nd time you've came to Draylo's defense when he's been accused of being racist. Might not mean anything, just something I noticed.

[6souls]

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/0...racist-remarks

The Twins have removed a statue of former owner Calvin Griffith because it came to light that he moved the team from DC to MN because the state had less blacks at the time.

In a statement, the team apologized for racist remarks Griffith made to a Lions Club meeting in Waseca, Minn., in 1978. There, Griffith reportedly told the group he moved the team from Washington, D.C., to Minnesota because there weren't many black people here.

Former Twins legend Rod Carew, who is black, quit the team over Griffith's remarks. He responded to the team's decision saying he understands why the Twins removed the statue.

https://twitter.com/Twins/status/1273964897219555328

[arus2001]

I feel compelled to say that the Deplorable term for the right sprung up for a reason, and even if someone that isn't all of those aspects, the tolerance paradox they invoke by voting for those who are is still pretty damning.

Meanwhile, I'll just keep eyerolling at how evil the "far left" is by wanting living wages for everyone with UBI being a more recent talking point, healthcare that won't plunge you into debt, same for education with improved quality on top, not being a bunch of racist xenophobes on immigration, respecting female autonomy, getting money out of politics and reforming the election process, giving a damn about the climate, not fucking over Natives for capitalism's sake, wanting to end police brutality, appropriately taxing the ultra wealthy, giving corporate personhood the boot, doing more for gun violence than thoughts and prayers, and other issues that aren't immediately springing to mind this very moment, but are still predominantly about helping the average citizen and the world we live in.

If this shit makes me evil, slap some horns on my head and call me the devil, motherfucker.

[Kanriel]

The "evil far left" examples are almost entirely internet troll identity politics related, and there's no one that actually pushes any related policy in government.

[Karbuncle]

I do find it interesting that this is the 2nd time you've came to Draylo's defense when he's been accused of being racist. Might not mean anything, just something I noticed.

ooooh, maybe I'm a sock account for Draylo? connect those lines! lol