{COVID-19} Coronavirus Pandemic III: Second Wave Preperation

[Roranora]

it's not common but i've seen a few randos wearing face shields at the grocery store

[Tyche]

Someone on my Facebook posted a hydroxy thing about how “you want data. Here is data showing it works.” With this link to a bunch of studies and their results.

Anyone able to help me dive into them? https://c19study.com/ Clicking on the individual studies seems to bring up the original source study. I haven’t had the time to really look into it but at least this person posted actual studies as opposed to wild videos.

I'm not diving through each individually, but just randomly going through them, some were not yet published, some stated the results were positive but the actual study showed the results were not statistically significant, and one "study" I reviewed was literally a letter to the editor.

It's a mixed bag...and as has been the case since this began...the evidence isn't conclusive.

[Boyiee]

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1288520743693824005

Wife's unit tried shields a couple weeks ago but the staff said it was definitely harder to breathe and hotter in them/uncomfortable and the patients complained they couldn't hear them speak so the staff was basically yelling to talk to patients. They immediately switched to goggles and everyone is happy.

[archibaldcrane]

California had a record 189 deaths on Wednesday, breaking the record from

Tuesday

[Restrat]

I clicked one of the positive studies randomly.
And immediately found some problems. They had a small number of patients who didn't get the treatment (this wasn't a RCT). Based on the experience in my hospital early on, they likely were giving HCQ to EVERY patient EXCEPT those with severe cardiac issues, ie., the people most likely to die. Without this type of information it's very disingenuous to claim this is testing HCQ at all. Actually it's really a lie to say this study shows anything about the treatment.

Another one. Right off the bat "Feb 30 to Mar 30, 2020" but I'll let that slide lol. Looking at the data, none of their values reached statistical significance except that 1/20 patients who got the treatment later became critically ill compared to 0/10 who got it early... numbers much to small to really have any meaning. They also only compared people who got treatment early and later on, without looking at people who didn't get it at all. They also are just looking back on medical records, but don't explain WHY anyone is in one group or another. Like, did HCQ become a more popular treatment on March 15th, so it's random? Did they start treating asymptomatic patients early? We don't know and without this information can't make any conclusions.

This one. Okay this one is really bad.... they looked at the national database and saw how many people who are on HCQ for Lupus or other autoimmune conditions got Covid compared to the overall population. Could anyone think of reasons why people with bad chronic health conditions who are likely immunosupressed by their medications might be at a different risk of getting Covid than the general population? Could they be staying home or quarantining more? At my hospital, nurses, doctors, etc. like that were allowed to stay home even during the peak of cases.

Another one. This one claims a huge decrease, but they only were looking at 7 patients who had Covid and were on HCQ previously for other reasons, like the above study, compared to 9 who didn't get covid but may have been exposed.... If your studied effect vanishes if only on person changes, no one is going to take that seriously as strong evidence.

Last one. Similar to the first study, this one has 91% of patients being treated. I would suspect those who weren't were in a similar positive, with severe comorbidity that made the drug unsafe and thus already at a greater risk of death. They don't explain why those patient's were not treated.
I think something that people might not understand is that for a period of time, pretty much everywhere in the world including here in NYC, either every hospitalized patient with Covid was given HCQ or HCQ+azithromycin or a random portion were as part of a study. So when you have a paper where almost every patient got the drug... it means those who didn't had a reason not to that should at least be looked at.

Even just by chance there should be some papers showing HCQ works, and in theory its ability to reduce inflammatory responses could do something. And by putting out papers showing it works or doesn't work, people know they will get published. Even journals like Nature and the Lancet were just pushing things out without much scrutiny to help get information out quickly (which certainly has drawbacks).

This website however is being dishonest in a number of ways. They list as "inconclusive" papers which show no effect of HCQ, when really if the question is "Does this treatment work?" that's a yes or no question. They take the data out of context and present it in a misleading manner, often going beyond what the paper itself claimed. They exclude meta analysis from their calculations for some reason, even though those are often the best for getting larger sample size and better average results. By simply listing the number of positive papers, one with 7 cases like the one I described above "cancels out" a negative (or "inconclusive" here) paper with 1,561 patients in the treatment arm. They also list news articles with a big green "positive" next to it even though that's just a press release. So I would not say this is a balanced look at the data on Covid treatment at all.

[Kaslo]

https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/12...976647680?s=20

[Day]

https://abcnews.go.com/US/dr-fauci-w...ry?id=72059055

just put us in fucking bubbles man im not wearing goggles

[Jaybar]

Holy shit

[Tyche]

Wife's unit tried shields a couple weeks ago but the staff said it was definitely harder to breathe and hotter in them/uncomfortable and the patients complained they couldn't hear them speak so the staff was basically yelling to talk to patients. They immediately switched to goggles and everyone is happy.

I use a shield and goggles. I don't find it hot or harder to breathe, the layers and layers of other shit is much worse. But the shields are absolutely awful for procedures, because you can't see shit. We have to clean them with an antiviral spray after every use and it creates a thick layer of fog on the shield. Placing lines is a nightmare.

[Tyrath]

Dying of covid to own the libs

[Daydreamer]

Thanks for helping with the studies people.

I also started to find some where they flat out said it didn’t work and then in the main website it was listed as a positive. Whelp....

[archibaldcrane]

https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/12...976647680?s=20

Probably shouldn't have gone maskless at the Tulsa rally

RIP to a real one, dude was always good for entertainment

[archibaldcrane]

.

[Kaslo]

Probably shouldn't have gone to the Tulsa rally

ftfy

[Yabby]

That is a little much. Cain was a big boy, he choose his path. That isn't on Trump.

[Tyrath]

can we get an illegal twitter trend of #TrumpKilledCain going

[Tymon]

That is a little much. Cain was a big boy, he choose his path. That isn't on Trump.

This logic isn't in line with Trump's ethos though. He wants you in lockstep with him all the way, either succeeding or failing with him. He's the one who made them organize that event without distancing or masks. He's the one who strongmanned people into going. He's the one who would have excommunicated Cain for not going. It's on him just as much as it would be on your boss if you had a workman's comp claim over negligence.

[Yabby]

I get what you mean, but Cain isn't some young kid that doesn't have money and little choices. He is a grown man, who created a successful business and had lots of money. He choose to side with Trump and the GOP because he wanted power and influence, it was a risk he accepted. This is a choice that a lot of people in the GOP and staffers are having to make, and hopefully this allows them to get a better idea of the risk they are taking.

[Tymon]

Well, call me a skeptic but I'll be eagerly awaiting that list of GOPers that break with him now over their personal safety. Haven't heard of really any at all so far.

[Yabby]

And that is their choice as grown ass old men.... and a few women.