#43 - Episode XIII - Prop Pardons Edition

[Yabby]

No, he just wants the 1200 check only on a bill. Just so he can put his name on that shit right before election. The bills had a lot more (From both sides) than just checks to Americans.

Edit: I didn't see the 1st one, but either way it is hard to tell what this dude is thinking. He changes what he wants min to min.

[Day]

Yes, his gripe is the "other shit" dems have wanted to put in. I haven't looked at the 2.4 trillion one or whatever but since US politicians wrote it I can only assume he's right about it being containing some unnecessary bullshit, but that's par for the course at this point in our legislation. I'm sure the R version sucks in a similar fashion in that regard.

[Byrthnoth]

Archi's tweet links are him asking for the other big carveouts?

He asserts that he has the money, but he doesn't and he is asking for the House to pass a bill to get him the money in the same tweet.

He's literally just breaking up the bill and asking for things one by one. I'm sure he'd end up approving all of it if suggested in the right order. This man is an idiot.

[Yabby]

Nothing would make me happier than all bills just be straight bills. Meaning we want to do X and only X, Y is how we are funding it. You know how hard it would be to play politics with straight bills?

[Byrthnoth]

Yeah, it would also make compromise impossible because single bills could be veto'd.

[Yabby]

Half the time those compromises are the issue with bills.

[Byrthnoth]

All of the time compromises are the only way the bills get to 60 votes in the senate.

The alternative to compromise legislation in our system is not uncompromising legislation, it's "no legislation." This is why Republicans like the idea of being uncompromising so much and push clean bills.

Don't sign new laws, undermine the existing laws via the judiciary, ???, hellscape velocity achieved

[Yabby]

I would love to see the theory tested. With straight bills it would force people to take them at face value. It would also allow the normal American votes to understand what is in a bill and hold their rep accountable for voting for or rejecting it.

[Day]

Edit: I didn't see the 1st one, but either way it is hard to tell what this dude is thinking. He changes what he wants min to min.

He thought he could get a political win by both blaming Nancy for the failed stimulus negotiations and pushing through the SCOTUS nom, but I don't think he realized how much more Americans would prefer covid assistance over another judge right now, and everyone called him a big dumbass so now he's trying his best to backpedal without looking like it.

[Milkster]

I would love to see the theory tested. With straight bills it would force people to take them at face value. It would also allow the normal American votes to understand what is in a bill and hold their rep accountable for voting for or rejecting it.

The average American won't read an article past a headline. There's no way any bill could be short enough for an average American to read and also enact any change.

[Yabby]

The average American won't read an article past a headline. There's no way any bill could be short enough for an average American to read and also enact any change.

Yes, but wouldn't it allow headlines to make sense? Meaning it is hard to misconstrue a bill that only has one topic/focus. (I say this, but I'm sure I can be proven wrong on this).

Meaning you have a bill that gives all American's 1,200 dollar checks but also attached to that bill is to fund a monument to Trump in the middle of DC. I'm sure most of the left would tell them to fuck off and vote no.

The headline, "The left doesn't want you to have 1,200 dollars to feed your children".

I feel like half of the "headlines" are just taking shit out of context, instead of the substance of the bill. That said, most bills are full of fucking bullshit.

[Yabby]

He thought he could get a political win by both blaming Nancy for the failed stimulus negotiations and pushing through the SCOTUS nom, but I don't think he realized how much more Americans would prefer covid assistance over another judge right now, and everyone called him a big dumbass so now he's trying his best to backpedal without looking like it.

So he is Mac from always sunny. He is playing both sides, but he sucks at it.

To your point, this is most likely because of who has his ear. The people telling him what they need to do don't give a fuck about stimulus because this COVID thing isn't impacting them or their checkbook.

[Byrthnoth]

I would love to see the theory tested. With straight bills it would force people to take them at face value. It would also allow the normal American votes to understand what is in a bill and hold their rep accountable for voting for or rejecting it.

I mean, assuming that people are capable of:
1) understanding what is in a bill
2) knowing what their reps did on the fresh multitude of bills
3) holding their reps accountable with our current voting system
4) knowing what the law is going to do when implemented

are all laughable.

But still, lets run through a hypothetical with the farm bill, which is basically all welfare of varying stripes. Among others, the farm bill has two components:
1) Corn bioethanol subsidies - This would never be approved alone because the rationale is stupid and it is basically a wealth transfer to a handful of corn-growing states.
2) SNAP - We also have been funding SNAP in this package. If split out on its own, this doesn't make it to 60 votes either because Republicans (including their senators) have the mistaken impression that SNAP is all cash handouts to urban PoC.

I'm not sure if any single part of the farm bill is actually popular enough to pass on its own. The alternative to the bloated farm bill isn't a subset of the policies passed in single-issue legislation. It's nothing passing. Libertarians would find that preferable, but I'm less sure.

[Yabby]

I mean, assuming that people are capable of:
1) understanding what is in a bill
2) knowing what their reps did on the fresh multitude of bills
3) holding their reps accountable with our current voting system
4) knowing what the law is going to do when implemented

are all laughable.

This is a far point, but i feel like the average vote has a problem with the above because of the confusing system that is in place. It's like tax law, it is made overly complicated so people don't question it and "Leave it to the professionals".

I'm optimistic about this point, but conceded that you are most likely right.

But still, lets run through a hypothetical with the farm bill, which is basically all welfare of varying stripes. Among others, the farm bill has two components:
1) Corn bioethanol subsidies - This would never be approved alone because the rationale is stupid and it is basically a wealth transfer to a handful of corn-growing states.
2) SNAP - We also have been funding SNAP in this package. If split out on its own, this doesn't make it to 60 votes either because Republicans (including their senators) have the mistaken impression that SNAP is all cash handouts to urban PoC.

I'm not sure if any single part of the farm bill is actually popular enough to pass on its own. The alternative to the bloated farm bill isn't a subset of the policies passed in single-issue legislation. It's nothing passing. Libertarians would find that preferable, but I'm less sure.

This is kind of my point. The Republicans think only urban PoC are using SNAP, they will quickly learn there are a lot of white rednecks who use it too. Shit I grew up with the majority of white trash taking advantage of the system (I remember trading food stamps for real money to get my mom.... stuff....).

The second white trash voters see their benefits stop because their rep thought only black people used these programs, they will quickly start shifting their viewpoints to the left. That or the right will see they have to vote on stuff out of fear of being removed.

White trash tends to think they are not on the same economic level as urban black people.... they are wrong. They justify their views only because they are still getting the help they need because the Dem's are still fighting to get the money. The right is able to control the narrative because they can hide their true intent deep in bills.

[Dimmauk]

All of the time compromises are the only way the bills get to 60 votes in the senate.

The alternative to compromise legislation in our system is not uncompromising legislation, it's "no legislation." This is why Republicans like the idea of being uncompromising so much and push clean bills.

Don't sign new laws, undermine the existing laws via the judiciary, ???, hellscape velocity achieved

For years the Republicans were all about Health care reform and individual mandates. Then Hillary Clinton wanted to do it and Obama made it happen and now they hate it.

[Milkster]

This is a far point, but i feel like the average vote has a problem with the above because of the confusing system that is in place. It's like tax law, it is made overly complicated so people don't question it and "Leave it to the professionals".

I'm optimistic about this point, but conceded that you are most likely right.



This is kind of my point. The Republicans think only urban PoC are using SNAP, they will quickly learn there are a lot of white rednecks who use it too. Shit I grew up with the majority of white trash taking advantage of the system (I remember trading food stamps for real money to get my mom.... stuff....).

The second white trash voters see their benefits stop because their rep thought only black people used these programs, they will quickly start shifting their viewpoints to the left. That or the right will see they have to vote on stuff out of fear of being removed.

White trash tends to think they are not on the same economic level as urban black people.... they are wrong. They justify their views only because they are still getting the help they need because the Dem's are still fighting to get the money. The right is able to control the narrative because they can hide their true intent deep in bills.

You think reps don't know who benefits from what and don't just lie instead to their constituents about the benefits the undesirables are getting.

[Yabby]

You think reps don't know who benefits from what and dint just lie instead to their constituents about the benefits the undesirables are getting.

That is based on Byrthnoth's point, I was suggesting they, knowing or not, couldn't hide that from their constituents with strait bills.

[Salodin]

A whole lotta complaining about representatives trying to represent the interests of their constituents. Aint no reason this bill shouldn't be generous when we need a lot more than a single $1200 check, and can def afford it too. Fortunately there's an election a month away so if they think their position tenable then by all means be stingy on economic relief in the middle of a pandemic.

I'd rather they didnt, but I'll wait.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[Mertron]

What unused funds from CARES?

yeah seriously give me my $600 per week backpay then, you bitches told me there was no money left

[arus2001]

I also feel that pushing for clean bills, or at least those where multiple issues are tightly related, should be the goal. I was one of those people months ago that believed individual stimulus checks should have had no ties to corporate/business bail outs, but we got what we got, with myself getting nothing at all because the Rs had to find any and all excuse to not help adults.

Otherwise, what we have going on now is more for the benefit of the politicians than the policies. It's easy to just hand wave and be all, "That's how politics works, stupid!" but that doesn't mean we're doing it right. After all, were that truly the case, we wouldn't be where we're at now, or were, and will continue to be regardless of who wins in November. You'll forever have the normies who don't care. People might not understand everything in something, but if you need new water lines in your town, some other part of the state getting a completely unrelated thing shouldn't be a factor in that. As some implied, it also makes it harder to hide the racism and callousness of various policies. Collectively, if it turns out we could categorize all bills and yearly and find something like military endeavors dwarf everything in both number of bills and expense, it also becomes that much easier for the constituency to be all, "WTF, help us, bitches!" and vote accordingly. So, again, we're back to the obfuscation helping the politicians (make a career out of this) rather than the policies themselves.

The reality is that more Trump Bux could have been a slam dunk for the buffoon, but the party as a whole couldn't shake their dick nature to ironically do what's best for both themselves and the people. And while I personally didn't believe HEROES would pass it was, the Dems were at least fucking trying to do some semblance of the right thing with both an even greater amount, retroactive funding, and plugging up some of the loopholes like the one I fell into. Other unrelated facets could at least to be tolerated because it was, dare I say, compromise. What the GOP tends to want is very rarely that, which is further why if we somehow wind up with a Dem majority, fuck anything and everything the republicans want for the next 2+ years. They deserve no political quarter for these past 12 years, emphasis on the past 4.