Final Fantasy XVI (PC/PS5) - June 22, 2023

[Prothescar]

That's my favorite argument to read (not saying people itt have made it): "Turn based games are better because they require more strategy and knowledge".

Spoken like someone who plays action games on story mode mashing the X button. Not sure I've ever played a turn based rpg where it wasn't easy to accidentally get so strong that you can literally just use a single ability or the attack command to clear essentially the entire thing.

Don't get me wrong, I love turn based games, but this whole tribal debate over which type of rpg is better is cringe cause they can both be boiled down to being as simple or complex as you want, generally. Overall 16 looks fun as fuck and I'm not convinced that a modern day AAA mainline FF would work well as turn based. That's what the side series like octopath and bravely are for. Not only are they targeting a smaller audience but the graphical styles are much more in line with a turn based system.

[Kaslo]

That's my favorite argument to read (not saying people itt have made it): "Turn based games are better because they require more strategy and knowledge".

Spoken like someone who plays action games on story mode mashing the X button. Not sure I've ever played a turn based rpg where it wasn't easy to accidentally get so strong that you can literally just use a single ability or the attack command to clear essentially the entire thing.

Don't get me wrong, I love turn based games, but this whole tribal debate over which type of rpg is better is cringe cause they can both be boiled down to being as simple or complex as you want, generally. Overall 16 looks fun as fuck and I'm not convinced that a modern day AAA mainline FF would work well as turn based. That's what the side series like octopath and bravely are for. Not only are they targeting a smaller audience but the graphical styles are much more in line with a turn based system.

Play the Octopath series.

[Takiwaki]

1. People are just scared of change. 2. Some are also not great at action style game in terms of reaction and coordination which was not needed in turn based games. 3. The feeling of having to dumb the game down in order to play it "making it accessible" could be taken as an insult. I can definitely understand the backlash.

[Tyrath]

But the game isn't forcing you to take those dumbed down options. It's allowing for more options based on everyone's playstyle/skill level. The backlash about that is dumb as hell.

[Kaslo]

but git gud

[NynJa]

3. The feeling of having to dumb the game down in order to play it "making it accessible" could be taken as an insult. I can definitely understand the backlash.

Its literally a piece of gear you opt-in to equipping. Its no different from games having a story mode difficulty.

[chazzyphizzle]

getting mad at accessibility options you dont have to use, couldn't be me

[Rulke]

Ugh my post got eaten. Anyway, I'm glad this topic came up. Seeing FFXVI as an action rpg gives me hope the next SE MMORPG will follow suit. After playing Tera going back to tab target in that setting was impossible for me. BDO also just reinforced this. When I chose to come back to FFXIV it was knowing that I would be taking a hit for all the other amazing things in the game. Its been nice to have mechanics to dodge and keep moving around to help things feel more.. dynamic? I guess. Anyway, if we see an action mmorpg from SE next, with the same qualities of FFXIV.. perfect!

[Salodin]

"but why wouldn't I use it! It's in the game!"

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[arus2001]

XII isn't perfect, especially with PS2 limitations, but I would say it's generally the last combat system I enjoyed of the series. The rough idea of it being an evolution of XI with the Gambit system on top to double on the whole accessibility angle is something I'm sad we haven't really seen since. Most games with auto-battling party members just give you a rough tactic to roll with instead of being able to streamline in general or tailor for specific encounters. Like, even DQ11's "Use MP Wisely" wasn't very smart, imo.

That said, tactics and difficulty really do depend on the game. In some you can't overlevel. Others bosses can have the whole "do the dance" thing, it just might not be as visual as "get out of the bad" like XIV. I'd typically say FF or DQ rarely got hard, maybe just grindy at best. And sure, spamming square to power up summons in VIII was dumb. Otherwise, I've always been against the notion that RPG players have to settle for terrible, forgive me, "stylized" graphics these days. The old days did what they could, especially with transition screens being deliberate for load times, but there's zero reason why turn-based can't exist in this day and age.

[Lucavi]

Most of the action game pushback I have is:

1) the fact that they usually boil down to "you vs. the world"; a trope I'm tired of because every game I ever grew up playing on the NES followed that trope (due to processing constraints, of course). It also allows companies to cheapen up on AI, since all they have to program are the individuals you, yourself fight. When companies do the AI right and allow you to have teammates that can actually assist you, most of my complaints go away, which is why I love the Armored Core and Battlech series, as both feature AI that can actually hold their own in a fight (for the most part). Then you have series like Mount and Blade where the AI on your side is no worse than the enemy AI, which can really make for some excellent massed combat.

2) Excessively over-the-top fighting moves, especially when the animations cancel one another to absurd degrees. I enjoy watching DMC, not playing it. I prefer my active combat to be more grounded in historical combat and less on the absurd anime style. Though games like that can do a good job of justifying why its your character killing everything and not some normal Joe Everyman, I prefer to play a more realistic style.

I'll be watching 16 from the sidelines, but I'm still excited about it. Its looking like it fufills the most important factor in a game: that it is well-made, and that spit and polish bodes well for a series that desperately need a game to come out of the gate well-done. Tired of the FFXIII's with nonsensical plots and XV with its garbage development cycle.

SE needs a mainline win, and this looks to be it. More power to Yoshi-P. He is showing the rest of the suits at SE how to get fucking work done in the modern age, and the solution isn't doubling down on recapturing past lightning in a bottle.

Adapt or die. Evolve or die.

[Vaspinne]

"but why wouldn't I use it! It's in the game!"

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

*Proceeds to use it, then goes online to complain about the game being too easy*

[Zealot]

If everything just used the Dragon's Dogma combat system the world would be a beautiful place.

[Kachiko]

That's my favorite argument to read (not saying people itt have made it): "Turn based games are better because they require more strategy and knowledge".

Spoken like someone who plays action games on story mode mashing the X button. Not sure I've ever played a turn based rpg where it wasn't easy to accidentally get so strong that you can literally just use a single ability or the attack command to clear essentially the entire thing.

Edgar casts Vanish!
Celes cast X-Zone!

*Fanfare music*

[Lucavi]

Edgar casts Vanish!
Celes cast X-Zone!

*Fanfare music*

Don't get me started on FFIV, and I love that game. Palom: *exists.* *Casts Quake*

Roll fanfare.

[Takiwaki]

Its literally a piece of gear you opt-in to equipping. Its no different from games having a story mode difficulty.

Oh I know but you got to see it from people that are not great at action games and used to hardcore the old FF games. Don't get me wrong I have no issue whatsover.

[Kachiko]

Don't get me started on FFIV, and I love that game. Palom: *exists.* *Casts Quake*

Roll fanfare.

It does highlight the point that both turn based and action based games, through a combination of gear/stats/skills, both let you become over-powered gods; the only real difference is if you prefer to mash a button, or mash a menu.

[Krandor]

If everything just used the Dragon's Dogma combat system the world would be a beautiful place.

It still blows my mind some of the things this game did that no other games have copied (character height/weight from creation mattering, some monsters being more aggressive against certain sexes). And obviously how every weapon is a masterwork all, you can't go wrong.

[Lucavi]

It does highlight the point that both turn based and action based games, through a combination of gear/stats/skills, both let you become over-powered gods; the only real difference is if you prefer to mash a button, or mash a menu.

Another reason I kinda like the "low fantasy" action adventure and simulation games. You can craft and buy and earn the strongest sword and halberd, stack the thickest king's armor and slap the thickest lamellar barding on your warhorse, but you still have to fight, even at endgame.

A game like Dragon's Dogma is why I suggested that SE literally flip how they were prioritizing their mainline and secondary games. Once SE lost the "we make the prettiest-looking RPGs and that's enough to keep us ahead" marketshare, they should have been investing the big bucks into those action games that seriously required top-notch polish and marketing to flourish. SE pissed so much time and money into FF12, 13 and 15 in areas that were unnecessary, and paid for it. They sold well, but they were ALWAYS going to sell well. The budget should have been in promoting and polishing the side games that had the opportunity to open up new markets for the company.

Instead, we had these morons designing custom fucking engines for the prettiest FMVs available at the expensive of just about everything else. Development hell all over the fucking place. Good thing there's big dick Yoshi-P here to set this fucking company straight on what it takes to thrive in the modern age.

[Kaisha]

*Proceeds to use it, then goes online to complain about the game being too easy*

Just add an achievement that requires you to beat the game without using any of the gameshark accessories. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯