Challenge 36: Double Agents (premieres 12/9/20)

**Vil** · 2021-04-21 19:19

lmao the song during the Fessy montage and all that. Beautiful.

**Vil** · 2021-04-21 20:43

That was probably the best designed final in forever. War of the Worlds 1 was a good final, but it was kind of too intense to its own detriment. This had plenty of difficulty, but also felt like it was a good balance overall... even if the checkpoints weren't almost all repeats of things they did this season.

The problem is that I can't remember there being such a lack of drama. For 2nd place, sure. They hadn't sold me on Leroy or Cory winning this season coming into tonight. Leroy seemed to be getting that golden edit for his final season, and Cory's was basically a slightly improved version of last season, nothing more. The only twist I could have seen would have been if Kam won with CT. Getting "lost"... yeah, ok. That probably slowed them down all of 30 seconds.

But hey, the scenery was great at least. This season had so much potential and fell off the rails hard at some points, but I'll probably remember it somewhat positively. Maybe that's because the final reminded me of Death Stranding.

**Xno Kappa** · 2021-04-21 21:36

Happy Cory got second. We all know Kam gonna toss a bone to Leroy, if she hasn’t already with the opening of his barber shop, so I’d rather Cory take some cash home too.

Also agreed on the final. One of the best designed finals in recent memory. God damn Amber is an endurance beast. No way CT was going to swap partners at that point.

**Vil** · 2021-04-21 22:02

Cory deserved something simply for the confessional where he's like "put Fessy's confessional in this corner about how he would have won if he wasn't held back" and then basically gives a word-for-word rundown of it.

**Moss** · 2021-04-21 23:36

Good final, happy with the result

Looking forward to see Fessy getting made fun of and making an ass of himself in the reunion

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**Byrd** · 2021-04-22 00:14

Originally Posted by Vil

Cory deserved something simply for the confessional where he's like "put Fessy's confessional in this corner about how he would have won if he wasn't held back" and then basically gives a word-for-word rundown of it.

One step ahead of you. I thought about doing it with the puking compilation set up last week, this was absolutely worth it.

Congrats to Vil on the season win. I don't think the standings have changed in a month, and this didn't switch it up much, although it made it a little closer.

General Notes:

Spoiler: show

Scoring:

Spoiler: show

Final Standings:

Spoiler: show

Contestant Scoring for the Season:

Spoiler: show

Overall, I thought it was a really good season, if a little light on drama. I think with the athletic focus of the show, we're likely to see less fighting and hookups than we used to, plus the $$$ amount completely refocuses things. $450k is a life changing amount of money for anyone on this show. We had a villain in Fessy who was properly served his comeuppance, we had the underdog story of Amber B, the champ-we-root-for in CT, the guy we wanted to win but are mostly OK that didn't in Leroy. Cory's kids got some money. The All-Stars is on to tide us over until we get around to Season 37.

The two champs were drafted 10th and 25th overall. The #1 overall pick went out first (even though she came back for a bit). I don't think anyone here is reading spoilers, and I like that.

**Vil** · 2021-04-22 10:50

All Stars still cruising along though since this is a truncated season I am kind of wondering how they're going to handle things.

Spoiler: show

**Byrd** · 2021-04-22 17:17

First, did anyone else listen to Bill Simmons' podcast?

Bill threw out a proposed format for a season which is Team CT vs. Team Bananas. But the important part is that it is not a schoolyard pick. Bananas and CT have to recruit players like a college football coach. They fly from city to city and pitch to their potential players on joining their team. Maybe both of them start with Wes in KC, and then Bananas flies to Houston to try to talk Leroy into coming back while CT tries to convince Alton to come out of retirement. This goes on until they each have their full team of people. The first episode of the season follows Bananas & CT flying all over the country to try to talk players into joining their team. While B-M would provide a list of ineligible players (Dee, Kenny, Camila, etc), Bananas and CT could pick from any other former challengers. If MTV required them to pick some rookies from a pre-determined list of other reality show contestants, they could do that. Even if they said no, we could see three minutes of footage from Evelyn, Landon, and other retired people who couldn't do it, but would still listen to their pitch.

If they wanted to get really devious, their appearance fees could be part of a salary cap, giving Johnny & CT more negotiating room, although I doubt Bunim-Murray would want to point that out to the viewers.

All Stars thoughts:

Spoiler: show

**Byrd** · 2021-04-23 12:04

I figure we can keep this thread going for All-Stars from this point forward, and wait until Season 37 to start a new thread.

Is anyone holding off on watching All-Stars, and wants us to keep the discussion in spoilers? I don't have a problem doing it, it just seems unnecessary if there is no need.

**Moss** · 2021-04-27 16:42

Originally Posted by Byrd

First, did anyone else listen to Bill Simmons' podcast?

Bill threw out a proposed format for a season which is Team CT vs. Team Bananas. But the important part is that it is not a schoolyard pick. Bananas and CT have to recruit players like a college football coach. They fly from city to city and pitch to their potential players on joining their team. Maybe both of them start with Wes in KC, and then Bananas flies to Houston to try to talk Leroy into coming back while CT tries to convince Alton to come out of retirement. This goes on until they each have their full team of people. The first episode of the season follows Bananas & CT flying all over the country to try to talk players into joining their team. While B-M would provide a list of ineligible players (Dee, Kenny, Camila, etc), Bananas and CT could pick from any other former challengers. If MTV required them to pick some rookies from a pre-determined list of other reality show contestants, they could do that. Even if they said no, we could see three minutes of footage from Evelyn, Landon, and other retired people who couldn't do it, but would still listen to their pitch.

If they wanted to get really devious, their appearance fees could be part of a salary cap, giving Johnny & CT more negotiating room, although I doubt Bunim-Murray would want to point that out to the viewers.

All Stars thoughts:

Spoiler: show

I did and think that idea has a lot of potential. BS mentioned that CT and Bananas would be safe for the entire season with this format, comparing it to Ultimate Fighter where they're building their team leading up to the final.

I think it's more interesting if they *can* get eliminated. Maybe only after getting unseated as the captain? e.g., the team can vote a new captain which protects that person and makes the previous captain now eligible for elimination

Otherwise I think you run into issues where CT and Bananas are going to have a priority list in their head of who they want to last the entire game on their team and slowly work up the list. Although perhaps that's solved by using one of the old formats where the teams pick someone from the opposing team to go into elimination

Either way, I think if CT and Bananas are guaranteed safe the whole time, they shouldn't be allowed to compete. Maybe they can function as coaches and they still get a slice of the final reward

Originally Posted by Byrd

I figure we can keep this thread going for All-Stars from this point forward, and wait until Season 37 to start a new thread.

Is anyone holding off on watching All-Stars, and wants us to keep the discussion in spoilers? I don't have a problem doing it, it just seems unnecessary if there is no need.

Seeing as no one has said otherwise yet, I think it's safe to start posting unspoiled starting with the next episode (5)

All stars ep4

Spoiler: show

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**Byrd** · 2021-04-27 17:48

Originally Posted by Moss

I did and think that idea has a lot of potential. BS mentioned that CT and Bananas would be safe for the entire season with this format, comparing it to Ultimate Fighter where they're building their team leading up to the final.

I think it's more interesting if they *can* get eliminated. Maybe only after getting unseated as the captain? e.g., the team can vote a new captain which protects that person and makes the previous captain now eligible for elimination

I think a compromise of that would work. CT and Bananas could be safe until either there are twice as many guys on their team as there are spots in the final (i.e. if 3 guys from each team are safe, CT and Bananas are safe until there are 5 guys left on their team, meaning they'd be the 6th, giving them a hypothetical 50% chance to make the final.). Alternatively, CT and Bananas could sacrifice their immunity if they wanted to actually be able to vote, which they wouldn't be able to do while immune. Alternatively, if they do get to the end without ever being vulnerable, they should be given a reduced share of the pie and not the Champion title for that season.

Without objections, I will leave out spoiler tags for All-Stars starting with after this coming episode (episode 5). And there are supposedly only 10 episodes this season, that's a lot of people to eliminate in short order.

**Vil** · 2021-04-27 18:21

It's 10? I'd read 9, which was what led me to my comment last week. Possible that it's 9+reunion and both are right.

As for the Bananas/CT thing, absolutely terrible. I think it's hilarious that I can imagine the joy in BS's eyes while just talking about a hypothetical season, but it's a horrible idea to do.

**Vil** · 2021-04-29 03:21

The odd episode # boot list on All Stars continues to be absolutely terrible. Syrus with an injured ankle? Yeah, he was probably on borrowed time. He probably would have been fed to Eric if he gets last in one of these, which would have been even worse. The other part of that though and a twist at the elimination? That was just dirty, and not in the "haha dirty game Teej" fun way. Beth getting pulled into that in that manner and sent packing is such bs.

**Byrd** · 2021-04-29 22:28

Originally Posted by Vil

Beth getting pulled into that in that manner and sent packing is such bs.

Yeah, I wasn't happy about that when TJ had specifically stated at the daily that it was a men's elimination. If he had left it unclear and let people make the assumption, that's one thing. This was deliberately misleading. I know they really needed to accelerate eliminations, and eliminating two people an episode needed to happen. But that wasn't the way to make the transition.

That being said, Beth actually really impressed me this year. I figured she was the quitter and going to be a house troublemaker, but she wasn't at all. She was actually quite pleasant to have around. I'd like to see her back again for sure; I certainly would not have predicted me having that opinion before the season started.

Alton gassing out on the daily was definitely a surprise. He definitely returned to Superman form in the elimination, though. I can't imagine Syrus and Beth coming close to Alton and Aneesa even if Syrus was healthy.

KellyAnne was very happy and surprised that Alton didn't pick her. I was too, for that matter. Her or Kendal seemed like the obvious choices, although perhaps Alton figured brute strength was what he needed.

**Vil** · 2021-04-30 20:22

I tuned in for a few minutes of the aftershow. Few things from what I caught:

1. That elimination was on Beth's birthday.

2. After all the other teams finished with that part of the challenge, Syrus told Beth that he's color blind.

3. Derrick said that Alton was claiming once they got back to the house that they gave him shoes that were too small. That's why he sucked at that. Uh, ok.

**Byrd** · 2021-05-01 02:17

Originally Posted by Vil

3. Derrick said that Alton was claiming once they got back to the house that they gave him shoes that were too small. That's why he sucked at that. Uh, ok.

I see he went to the Lolo Jones school of taking responsibility.

**Moss** · 2021-05-01 04:09

Originally Posted by Byrd

Yeah, I wasn't happy about that when TJ had specifically stated at the daily that it was a men's elimination. If he had left it unclear and let people make the assumption, that's one thing. This was deliberately misleading. I know they really needed to accelerate eliminations, and eliminating two people an episode needed to happen. But that wasn't the way to make the transition.

That being said, Beth actually really impressed me this year. I figured she was the quitter and going to be a house troublemaker, but she wasn't at all. She was actually quite pleasant to have around. I'd like to see her back again for sure; I certainly would not have predicted me having that opinion before the season started.

Alton gassing out on the daily was definitely a surprise. He definitely returned to Superman form in the elimination, though. I can't imagine Syrus and Beth coming close to Alton and Aneesa even if Syrus was healthy.

KellyAnne was very happy and surprised that Alton didn't pick her. I was too, for that matter. Her or Kendal seemed like the obvious choices, although perhaps Alton figured brute strength was what he needed.

I've always been something of a Beth stan. She's a great villain in all of her seasons but seemingly without really doing much aside from not kissing up to everyone. Always respected her self-confidence and not worrying about the mean girls coming for her

I'm cool with the 2v2 format but agree using it as a twist was BS. It's going to put a ton of strong players at risk

Really impressed with this season in general. Great design on most of the dailies and eliminations and really good casting. There are going to be some elimination bloodbaths once Easy is eliminated as the last easy target, because the dude's side is stacked

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**Vil** · 2021-05-06 04:25

All Stars? This boot list... pain. They do such a good job with the rest of the show that I do forget about that for a while, at least. I really got my hopes up after the first heat they showed in that elimination too.

Really good challenge concept, though it's very weird that they didn't have some edited in voice-over about the rules because how the hell do you come up with a last place team when 3 teams got 0? Most pieces placed correct is about the only thing I could think of.

This was the 2nd time Katie volunteered, right? One I can give a pass to, but a second time? I don't know. I think it's an interesting concept where you'll have the guys this week and the ladies next week playing the "oh, please don't pick me" thing and I'm glad to only see it twice. Last week really didn't get that, and I'm cool with this being in the "not sure if I like it or not" zone. Some people do end up on some weak teams, but you can always be a captain and win the challenge.

Elimination apparently took like 90 minutes. I wonder how much of that time was resetting the ropes. These types of eliminations usually tend to go long, and there was at least one split round.

I'd say Mark's going to regret admitting he threw the elimination to Bananas, but I'm sure he's so far beyond giving a crap. That whole crew all did the profit sharing back then and I'm pretty sure they've been open about it.

**Byrd** · 2021-05-06 11:44

All-Stars Thoughts:
Katie: "Unlike most people on the Challenge, I'm very self-aware..." She's not wrong.
TJ calling out his own pun is pretty dumb, but kind of awesome because it's TJ.
I like the strategy of this, deciding who has the last time and balancing that against skill. Do you try to get all four and put your best first? Or get somewhere in the middle?
Big Easy's Gauntlet 3 thumbnail pic is maybe the worst thumbnail I've seen. I know he was very fat at the time, but still, they could have done him a favor and picked a different one.
Big Easy - surprisingly good at puzzles. Is that new, or had I just forgotten?
Jisela stressing how confident she is she did it right, and they keep showing her staying that. She screwed up, didn't she?
Poor Katie. They made the right decision putting her first, though.
Oh, the upside-down puzzle is an interesting twist. Curious how they'll rule it.
If they didn't say you had to have your puzzle a certain way (and Kendal said they didn't), I don't think it's fair to say it has to be a vertical letter.
Nominating someone who will choose her partner is a really interesting strategic dilemma. Definitely is likely to pull the better players into elimination much more often. Would like to see something like this on the normal Challenge in lieu of the skull twist.
I like Kendal, but I kind of want Mark Long to lose just because he's an Executive Producer.
Katie wants to go in? What? Maybe she's collected her appearance fee, realizes that she can't win a final, and is ready to go. Of course, she'll end up taking someone with her when she goes.
The way Jisela is talking, it feels a little bit like alliances are falling largely along racial lines.
Laterrian seems like a very stand up guy.
Katie has a huge advantage here in that she can see the challenge before picking a guy.
Tug of War - Laterrian seems like the guy over Yes, since those seem to be her two options.
I feel like Kendal is always going to beat Katie, and Mark and Laterrian might push, so I think Kendal/Mark will win.
Well, it didn't take long to prove me wrong about Kendal winning every time.
I wonder if there were some split heats here, and they just edited them out.
Laterrian and Katie are definitely both people I would like to see again.
Going straight to the final after next week? That would leave six people of each sex left for the final, seems like a lot. I guess a two week final could have a couple of purges in there somewhere. And didn't they say there was only one winner, regardless of gender? Something isn't adding up.

**Xno Kappa** · 2021-05-06 12:40

Man they cut so much drama and hook ups from double agents according to the reunion lol. I was robbed of a championship!

Thread: Challenge 36: Double Agents (premieres 12/9/20)

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