{COVID-19} My Body, My Choice V: We HaD tHe CuRe In FeBrUaRy

[NynJa]

Seriously, the UK is doing "first doses first" to great effect, at least 5 of the vaccines (Pfizer, Moderna, J&J, Astra-Zeneca, Novovax, not sure about Sputnik) are 100% effective in preventing hospitalizations or deaths from COVID-19 - if you want to declare me incorrect about literally anything you're going to need an actual argument.

AZ vaccine has also been shut down in multiple countries due to blood clot issues...but hey, atleast its effective against covid.

[Moss]

AZ vaccine has also been shut down in multiple countries due to blood clot issues...but hey, atleast its effective against covid.

From the article I saw(reuters?), they had 37 instances of blood clots out of millions of doses, less than the normal rate



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[NynJa]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/16/healt...ntl/index.html

France, Spain, Germany, Italy and more than a dozen other countries have paused rollout of the shot

[archibaldcrane]

A bunch of countries are being fucking stupid about A-Z, and hundreds if not thousands will die unvaccinated because of their idiocy.

[archibaldcrane]

Not this fucking argument again.

if you want to declare me incorrect about literally anything you're going to need an actual argument.

[Moss]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/16/healt...ntl/index.html

It found that of those millions of people, there have been 15 events of deep vein thrombosis (DVT) and 22 events of pulmonary embolism reported after vaccination; lower than the number that would be expected to occur naturally within that population size.

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[archibaldcrane]

And I assumed due to the global situation, the findings were shared with all manufacturers in order to saturate production.

If that's not the case, well, I learned something today.

Yeah that's not the case, these vaccines are unique from each other and were developed independently and some are using very different mechanisms than others.

[Byrthnoth]

It is late here, but . . .

Moderna and Pfizer are the two first mRNA vaccines ever approved, no?

AZ and J&J are both using adenovirus transfection, which has not been done for a vaccine previously to my knowledge but is the way people have been trying to do gene therapy (with varied and sometimes cancerous results) since the 80s.

None of the technologies being used were exactly sure things. What this tells us mostly is that the last three decades of biomedical research wasn't a complete waste but we need a pandemic to overcome the regulatory hurdles and get some shit greenlit.

[NynJa]

A bunch of countries are being fucking stupid about A-Z, and hundreds if not thousands will die unvaccinated because of their idiocy.

That would imply that the only vaccine available in those countries is AZ. Spain, Germany, France are all receiving and immunizing their people via Pfizer, Moderna and J&J.

Idiocy would be injecting untested vaccines in hundreds of millions of people back in March 2020.

isnt mRNA relatively new technology as well?

[Tymon]

It is late here, but . . .

Moderna and Pfizer are the two first mRNA vaccines ever approved, no?

AZ and J&J are both using adenovirus transfection, which has not been done for a vaccine previously to my knowledge but is the way people have been trying to do gene therapy (with varied and sometimes cancerous results) since the 80s.

None of the technologies being used were exactly sure things. What this tells us mostly is that the last three decades of biomedical research wasn't a complete waste but we need a pandemic to overcome the regulatory hurdles and get some shit greenlit.

The two mRNA vaccines and their incredible level of efficacy is going to push vaccine science in general forward at least 30 years. It's remarkable, incredible, paradigm shift stuff.

[archibaldcrane]

That would imply that the only vaccine available in those countries is AZ. Spain, Germany, France are all receiving and immunizing their people via Pfizer, Moderna and J&J.

Idiocy would be injecting untested vaccines in hundreds of millions of people back in March 2020.

They (like Canada) are significantly vaccine-limited, A-Z would speed up their vaccination rate.

[Tymon]

They are significantly vaccine-limited, A-Z would speed up their vaccination rate.

Also the part where pretty much every one of those countries chief medical officers are calling them out and saying they did it for political solidarity.

Just an awful look all around

[Yabby]

I think it is less "Really easy to make a vax" and more "This is impacting the right people's lives". When something has a large impact on the global economy and keeping rich people from having fun, things get done, fast.

[kuronosan]

The burden of responsibility is not on me to prove you wrong. Do a better job proving yourself right.

[Salodin]

What are you guys even arguing about? Archi is right that one vaccine dose is probably enough, that's a no brainer. The vaccines being ready in march 2020 also isn't a lie, but it's also hindsight being 20/20 and there's no intellectually honest excuse to look at well theorized but untested vaccine tech and pushing it out to the masses without proper, but rushed, trials.

Archi is famous for being technically correct, the best and most annoying kind of correct.

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[synistar]

Who would you rather believe.

A contract video editor

A worldwide community of immunologists and epidemiologists that have to comb through hundreds of thousands of data points in clinical trials to make sure the vaccine is safe and effective. They also have to rebuild confidence that the A-Z vaccine isn't clotting your blood.

[Salodin]

Archi isnt really saying anything you guys aren't lol

Only thing he steps out over his skis on is hindsight distribution of the vaccines, which I'd agree with him on if it wasn't for the fact that these vaccines were created using novel methods. If they were run of the mill whole virion particle vaccines, I'd be right there with him going "pass that shit out to the willing and needy trials be damned"

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[NynJa]

What are you guys even arguing about? Archi is right that one vaccine dose is probably enough, that's a no brainer. The vaccines being ready in march 2020 also isn't a lie, but it's also hindsight being 20/20 and there's no intellectually honest excuse to look at well theorized but untested vaccine tech and pushing it out to the masses without proper, but rushed, trials.

Archi is famous for being technically correct, the best and most annoying kind of correct.

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You dont get to claim idiocy on multiple countries for temporarily pulling one of three vaccines from usage until they can get further information on its safety after you've gone on record multiple times stating that the vaccines based on new technology should have been put into hundreds of millions of humans without any actual testing.

[Salodin]

You dont get to claim idiocy on multiple countries for temporarily pulling one of three vaccines from usage until they can get further information on its safety after you've gone on record multiple times stating that the vaccines based on new technology should have been put into hundreds of millions of humans without any actual testing.

You don't get to say this when the medical investigation you're talking about has already produced data that shows the blood clots are not a concern. There are actually fewer cases of blood clots in vaccine recipients than would be expected in a normal population. The EU is just politicizing nonsense cause they're incompetent.

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[archibaldcrane]

The EU is just politicizing nonsense cause they're incompetent.

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Take the win here Nynja, Canada is seeing this situation clearly.