The Stock Market Is Not The Economy Thread II

[Spicyryan]

Oh, jokes, I get those. Like "we just need to build more houses". Or "there is a shortage of workers." Liberal solutions to liberal problems. Meanwhile, I'm the idiot for seeing the problem as something building doesn't fix or that yeah, people don't want to be treated like shit at a restaurant, and we all have a good laugh.

[Yabby]

It sounds like you're expressing frustration with what you perceive as oversimplified solutions and dismissive attitudes towards complex issues. It's not uncommon for problems to be reduced to catchphrases or superficial solutions, which can be quite frustrating when you believe there's more nuance to consider.

It's important to recognize that many challenges, especially societal ones, are multifaceted and require comprehensive approaches. While certain proposed solutions might seem overly simplistic, they could be intended as starting points for more in-depth discussions and actions.

Regarding your perspective on how people are treated, it's true that issues like worker treatment in industries such as restaurants involve a combination of factors, including labor conditions, wages, management practices, and societal attitudes. Treating these issues with seriousness and empathy is crucial for fostering a healthier and more equitable society.

Engaging in open conversations that delve into the complexities of problems can help shed light on the deeper issues at play and lead to more effective solutions. It's okay to challenge simplistic narratives and advocate for a more thoughtful approach to addressing problems.

[Zealot]

Oh, jokes, I get those. Like "we just need to build more houses". Or "there is a shortage of workers." Liberal solutions to liberal problems. Meanwhile, I'm the idiot for seeing the problem as something building doesn't fix or that yeah, people don't want to be treated like shit at a restaurant, and we all have a good laugh.

"Tear down the entire system and embrace communism" is not the complex and nuanced solution you believe it to be.

[arus2001]

The way some of you guys are acting is exactly how Trump got a soap box to stand on to begin with. No amount of unemployment being down or the economy booming means shit when you have so many people struggling to pay bills, needing multiple jobs, are an accident away from bankruptcy/homelessness, having to put up with asshole bosses and a culture that asserts that what jobs they do have are just for kids and aren't actually careers. All this while corporate America hoodwinks folks over inflation and OPEC does what OPEC does by spiking oil costs, thereby fucking everyone's gas tanks and wallets.

"It's complicated!" is right up there on the futility chart with "Let's incrementalism all the things!" when the problems need solutions now. Frankly, we haven't had enough strikes, protests, union formations, and inconveniences. Not because I want to see the world burn or just to guffaw at Karens, but because the people that actually make this world go round aren't being given a fair shake and haven't been for a long, long time now.

[archibaldcrane]

I don't know how to respond to assertions that are just...not congruent with the available data. "Everything is always bad and it's just degrees of how bad" is not a mindset I can countenance at the same time as I recognize that things are ~better than they've ever been in all of human or American history.

[Gredival]

I don't know how to respond to assertions that are just...not congruent with the available data. "Everything is always bad and it's just degrees of how bad" is not a mindset I can countenance at the same time as I recognize that things are ~better than they've ever been in all of human or American history.

But not as good as it would be if Churchill and FDR were more like Stalin.

Gotcha.

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[Roranora]

I don't know how to respond to assertions that are just...not congruent with the available data. "Everything is always bad and it's just degrees of how bad" is not a mindset I can countenance at the same time as I recognize that things are ~better than they've ever been in all of human or American history.

but are they though

this post belongs in the climate crisis thread

[archibaldcrane]

but are they though

this post belongs in the climate crisis thread

The good thing about getting richer is that we get more resilient to worse weather faster than the weather gets worse.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/f...weather-events

[Roranora]

now we’re cooking with gas

[Athas]

Was standing out in an empty field during a thunderstorm the hottest recreational activity back in the day or what?

[arus2001]

I don't know how to respond to assertions that are just...not congruent with the available data. "Everything is always bad and it's just degrees of how bad" is not a mindset I can countenance at the same time as I recognize that things are ~better than they've ever been in all of human or American history.

The issue is the talking head data you're working with is not the same data that's telling you people are struggling. Are we potentially better than we've ever been? Sure, that's kind of the nature of technological advancement. On the other hand, wealth distribution continues to trickle upward, single-earner households are a lot more difficult to maintain, housing costs are spiking even outside of urban areas, and all the aforementioned things I brought up in my last reply. None of that is touched in "Unemployment is at historically low levels!" or "The fed says inflation is down x% but we're still gonna raise rates some more!"

Where did all of these people who allegedly abandoned the food industry go? What jobs were they able to train for, let alone afford to do so, in the rough year of covid times? I'm not going to refute that some did train out or were already in the process of doing so when covid hit, but let's not pretend stimulus checks were paying college tuitions or that unemployment checks weren't going to things other than food or rent. The whole "No one wants to work anymore!" was always a right-wing hoax, and in general, I'd say younger generations are more aware just how fucked our current economy really is. Service and retail hasn't changed at all. It's still hell. All that "YoU'rE tHe ReAl HeRoEs!" shit is dead and gone. However, some kind of nationwide shortage would imply there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people avoiding these places. So, where did they go?

Mind, I was one of those individuals that felt the pandemic was probably the best time to initiate a sort of workers' rights reset. We all know the minimum wage doesn't cut it anymore, and even if most states are a couple bucks above by now, it's still insufficient compared to its original purpose. Nonetheless, we're still seeing people fighting having to return to the office if WFH is possible, the earlier mentioned striking, and people generally refusing shit jobs for shit pay/treatment if they can get away with it. It's disorganized, but ultimately in the same spirit of emphasizing things can and should be better.

[Salodin]

The way some of you guys are acting is exactly how Trump got a soap box to stand on to begin with. No amount of unemployment being down or the economy booming means shit when you have so many people struggling to pay bills, needing multiple jobs, are an accident away from bankruptcy/homelessness, having to put up with asshole bosses and a culture that asserts that what jobs they do have are just for kids and aren't actually careers. All this while corporate America hoodwinks folks over inflation and OPEC does what OPEC does by spiking oil costs, thereby fucking everyone's gas tanks and wallets.

"It's complicated!" is right up there on the futility chart with "Let's incrementalism all the things!" when the problems need solutions now. Frankly, we haven't had enough strikes, protests, union formations, and inconveniences. Not because I want to see the world burn or just to guffaw at Karens, but because the people that actually make this world go round aren't being given a fair shake and haven't been for a long, long time now.

You sound kinda out of touch tbh

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[archibaldcrane]

The issue is the talking head data you're working with is not the same data that's telling you people are struggling. Are we potentially better than we've ever been? Sure, that's kind of the nature of technological advancement. On the other hand, wealth distribution continues to trickle upward, single-earner households are a lot more difficult to maintain, housing costs are spiking even outside of urban areas, and all the aforementioned things I brought up in my last reply. None of that is touched in "Unemployment is at historically low levels!" or "The fed says inflation is down x% but we're still gonna raise rates some more!"

Where did all of these people who allegedly abandoned the food industry go? What jobs were they able to train for, let alone afford to do so, in the rough year of covid times? I'm not going to refute that some did train out or were already in the process of doing so when covid hit, but let's not pretend stimulus checks were paying college tuitions or that unemployment checks weren't going to things other than food or rent. The whole "No one wants to work anymore!" was always a right-wing hoax, and in general, I'd say younger generations are more aware just how fucked our current economy really is. Service and retail hasn't changed at all. It's still hell. All that "YoU'rE tHe ReAl HeRoEs!" shit is dead and gone. However, some kind of nationwide shortage would imply there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people avoiding these places. So, where did they go?

This is a lot of anecdotal stuff and not any data showing things are worse.

Wages at the bottom end are growing faster than any other group, and have been for 7 years now.

"Where did they go?"

Into higher paying jobs.

[Salodin]

The staff at McDonald's hasn't sucked since the pandemic because no one wants to work, they suck because the better ones went and got better jobs.

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[Cantih]

Ok, now find an equivalent chart for rental prices, and mortgage monthly nut prices.

[archibaldcrane]

Ok, now find an equivalent chart for rental prices, and mortgage monthly nut prices.

Here you go. Obviously there's weird compositional swings corresponding to the COVID lockdowns but we're back on track beyond that now.

("Real" means adjusted for inflation, which includes housing expenses as the most prominent factor.)

[Kaslo]

Here you go. Obviously there's weird compositional swings corresponding to the COVID lockdowns but we're back on track beyond that now.

("Real" means adjusted for inflation, which includes housing expenses as the most prominent factor.)

This doesn't correlate to my subjective beliefs, and thus I must reject it.

[arus2001]

I'm sorry the living experience in Trumpian hellscape Ohio doesn't reflect the optimism of some tweets. Carry on with the knowing better or whatever you want to call it.

[Krandor]

Those look more like charts reflecting cold hard data to me and not so much tweets

[Salodin]

I'm sorry the living experience in Trumpian hellscape Ohio doesn't reflect the optimism of some tweets. Carry on with the knowing better or whatever you want to call it.

But it's data, not tweets. Which illustrates the problem, it doesn't matter what evidence someone gives, some people feel a certain way and it doesn't matter what reality is they will still go on believing the same thing that is clearly not true.

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