The Stock Market Is Not The Economy Thread II

[Yabby]

Wut

All companies do this. This is the most Sid Vicious of takes to think that only "unnecessary products" are gouged.

You didn't read what I said if you think I was talking only about unnecessary products. I focused on those things because necessary products are a product of company greed more than anything. All bitching about that stuff is justified.

[Zetanio]

https://twitter.com/AlecStapp/status...wJSuL2e8g&s=19

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this is not quite the dunk on SF that people think it is.

could you densify that small square mileage? Yeah sure and they should but the cost will be pretty onerous because of the huge amount of existing... everything? They've already made their zoning mistakes but even getting rid of all zoning restrictions and lowering the bar to building wouldn't let them get remotely close to competing because it's a size-limited area.

vs building in Texas which involves "Hey you see that vast giant open empty space over there, i should build houses there where nothing has existed before." or "hey let's just build a big ole building here." at a cost of basically nothing for the land.

[Zetanio]

also arguing necessary vs unnecessary demand patterns isn't gonna get anywhere. need vs want is not ever going to play out because people are fucking idiots who waste their money. Yes, things are expensive. I actually think fast food should be more expensive than other options. You want your food hot, packaged, and ready the second you need it? Pay for the time savings and efficiency of scale needed to provide it. It's getting less cheap and convenient to be fat these days which isn't overall a bad thing but like 80% of the US is used to insanely cheap nightmarishly poor quality food.

[kuronosan]

Right but what's the difference from a practical standpoint? You think the housing market doesn't go "fuck Taco Bell prices increased 300% time to go up"?

I largely agree with you that unnecessary purchases fuel this, but it still boils down to corporate greed and systemic poverty. People are only now in uproar because the wages haven't kept up and the value metric has shifted away from fast food as an affordable alternative. It has nothing to do with "man those fat bastards keep indulging in shit they don't need". Prices aren't going to go back down.

Edit: yes sure make fast food expensive. Love it. Get rid of tip culture because I'm fucking tired of being prompted to pay more. I went into your business to buy shit I'm not tipping you more for doing your job this ain't waiting tables or delivery.

[Zetanio]

yeah tipping is fuckin dumb. i do it because its the way its done right now but boy howdy i hate it.

[kuronosan]

Like I order pizza for pick up and it asks if I can add a tip. For what? Cooking the food I'm ordering? Isn't that what I'm already paying for? I don't tip Apple for ordering an iPad that doesn't make any fucking sense.

[Ayn]

Gotta love that "That'll be 12.95, just look at the screen annnd it's going to ask you a little question first before you pay".

[Tyrath]

I don't tip for pickup unless it's a place I really like and am a regular at.

That's nonsense

[archibaldcrane]

this is not quite the dunk on SF that people think it is.

could you densify that small square mileage? Yeah sure and they should but the cost will be pretty onerous because of the huge amount of existing... everything? They've already made their zoning mistakes but even getting rid of all zoning restrictions and lowering the bar to building wouldn't let them get remotely close to competing because it's a size-limited area.

vs building in Texas which involves "Hey you see that vast giant open empty space over there, i should build houses there where nothing has existed before." or "hey let's just build a big ole building here." at a cost of basically nothing for the land.

If you ripped off all the stupid restrictions and expedited permitting, SF would turn into Tokyo.

The idea that it's already built out so it wouldn't matter much is wrong, it's mostly built out with 80+ year old single family homes.

And SF isn't special in that chart, it is indistinguishable from the other major California cities.

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[Zetanio]

FFS I had a huge post and clicked a link to an old post and erased it.

Basically: for SF Tokyo to be done properly, you'd need to rip up and rebuild every single part of SF, that would be wildly and prohibitively expensive even without permitting. You have to buy the land, rip everything down, dig all the way down and rip all the existing infrastructure out, rebuild all of that, probably build a ton more mass transit at the same time, finish all that, build the skyscrapers and let the noodle shops open. Even a napkin math guess would be near a trillion bucks if you paid 25% of what the land is worth now.

If you just got rid of the permits and changed all the zoning to unrestricted (which I would like them to do anyway) the hodgepodge of building would probably turn SF into even more of an absolute nightmare. They are land-constrained, mass transit constrained and goooooood luck paying enough for white peepo to leave the SFH they paid 2m for.

[archibaldcrane]

How could we ever build more homes, there's no land!

https://twitter.com/cayimby/status/1...ZDAGthb2A&s=19

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[Outlaw]

Don't worry. When the big one eventually hits California most of these cities will be submerged under the ocean and people can move to better places!

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[Kaslo]

Don't worry. When the big one eventually hits California most of these cities will be submerged under the ocean and people can move to better places!

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And people are gonna make bank selling all those homes they are leaving too

[arus2001]

I'll just sit over here sad at the mid-west's general refusal to reinvent itself to become more than just flyover and how properly built cities and infrastructure could instead be made in all the open, unused space. And with the way climate change is going, we're probably gonna have to start manually digging rivers to offset rising sea levels.

[Tyrath]

And people are gonna make bank selling all those homes they are leaving too

[Meresgi]

Like I order pizza for pick up and it asks if I can add a tip. For what? Cooking the food I'm ordering? Isn't that what I'm already paying for? I don't tip Apple for ordering an iPad that doesn't make any fucking sense.

Sorry sir, but we're paying our staff slave wages and we want you to subsidize their income because if I start paying them even close to a living wage then I can't buy my fucking cybertruck.

[Cantih]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...s/73820023007/

Not "solve the problem" legislation, but "stop it getting worse". The number should be an order of magnitude smaller, but hey it's something.

Also, do we need a separate real estate thread?

[archibaldcrane]

It's just silly. Private equity is only buying up SFHs in areas they are confident will continue to be supply constrained.

Remove the constraints!

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[archibaldcrane]

Dallas Metro area has been building more housing per year than the entire state of California

and has been for years.


Note that the Dallas MSA is already over 3x as densely populated as California.

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[arus2001]

I'd be more charmed by that data if it wasn't, y'know, Texas.