The Stock Market Is Not The Economy Thread II

[Penthesilea]

Appreciate the insight.

And i'd rather sell feet pics on OF than be a teacher. Pay is horrid.

I sent this to Archie separately but generally being able to demonstrate your ability to understand different personas and their use cases for a product is big. And then communicating that effectively to the different groups who need the information about the product- sales needs to know how it benefits the customer so they can effectively pitch the product, engineers need implementation details (if you are responsible for this level of work, it might be a product owner doing this instead), and customers themselves need to know the benefits of your product.

Breaking into the field can be tough, especially at the FAANG level with their absurd grueling interview process. The biggest thing is demonstrating your empathy and problem identification and solving skills. These ultimately help you define the product vision and strategy.

[archibaldcrane]

Thanks for the message Pen, and Gred I was actually applying for real assoc professor jobs 15 years ago, in film a masters is the terminal degree so many universities don't require a PhD especially if you have industry experience. But to your point, I actually know the dean of faculty at Polytechnic lol...hmm

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[Salodin]

If ya'll are super desperate and want to hate your lives, the national teacher shortage is wild.

Private schools will take virtually anyone with a masters, and most public schools will accept temporary suspension of credential requirements for a masters holder. I'm not sure if you are qualified to teach community college with only a masters in your field, but that's also an option.

Just get ready to realize that the reason why most people can't distinguish Trump from Biden is that most kids in America can't distinguish their heads from their asses anymore.

Esp for archi, there are a bunch of elite private schools in the LA area that would love to make up some BS about how they offer unique courses other schools don't have. I literally think you got a shot at asking Harvard Westlake, Marlborough, Polytechnic, and those sorts of schools if they are interested in film editing classes. It would suck considerably less at wealthy privileged schools.

I have often considered shaping America's youth and bending them to my will.

I got tired of my lonely field in clinical labs. Same 3 people every day. Never had a fun story to share when I went out. The work is fine, but I was wasting away, and teaching I can take to any state and find a decent job fast if I wanted to move. One year in, it's been the best decision I've made in a long time. Fell in love with the role I had in the kids lives, plenty of new things happen every day, and I can't wait to be like my coworkers who have students graduating or working on great things in high school and just seeing them grow up into wonderful people.

Seems lame, but it's been very rewarding. Idk if I can afford to do it forever, unless I find some side income eventually or I take a teaching position somewhere else, but the options are open and I can legitimately say I'm happy at work. I haven't been able to say that in maybe my entire life.

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[Ayn]

There are generally rewarding parts of it and you will often have an interesting story to tell (Zealot can probably attest from some of the ones I bore him with); but agreed on the side income. I also think it's equally important to cultivate friendships outside of the field -- ones who understand the challenges of the job, but aren't bogged down with the intricacies.

[Gredival]

I think I enjoyed it a lot more when I was doing it as a part-time volunteer. I believe it was because I was only interacting with debate kids who actually cared. Teaching core classes results in having to be a babysitter and that sucks. Then you have shitty pay AND no intrinsic rewards.

That's why I recommended archi try to hop to rich private schools. There's more kids that care, or at least have more attentive parents who will force the kids to try because they are paying. OFC every private school has privileged kids and parents, but I've been told there's a difference between showy rich and actual rich. At the HWL/Poly tier, there is less "fake it to make it" new money with over inflated entitlement.

But I do simultaneously believe that, independently, all kids have been more entitled and less mature since COVID and it's definitely gotten worse as the kids who were younger during COVID progress.

[Richybear]

That and if you work at a private school, you can always get that bribe money

[Salodin]

That's why I like elementary school cause even the kids that don't try academically at this level at least need education on being a person. I feel like I'd miss out on that the higher in grade levels I go.

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[Gredival]

That's why I like elementary school cause even the kids that don't try academically at this level at least need education on being a person. I feel like I'd miss out on that the higher in grade levels I go.

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Oh they need plenty of education on how to be a functioning human being at the HS level, it's just that they don't think they do and they talk back when you tell them that.

You definitely do have the benefit of COVID kids who didn't miss out on too much being stuck at home.

[Krandor]

Can confirm past the high school level they still need it. The complete lack of personal responsibility I see from kids even in their early 20s is astounding.

[Salodin]

Oh they need plenty of education on how to be a functioning human being at the HS level, it's just that they don't think they do and they talk back when you tell them that.

You definitely do have the benefit of COVID kids who didn't miss out on too much being stuck at home.

That parts great. The covid kids are almost out of elementary school, that age range has def been some wild shit lol. Good luck young teachers.

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[Byrthnoth]

Keeds these days, etc.

I think people need to have at least one experience that makes them grapple with the fact that they have no intrinsic value and are only as useful as they are to other people. The new deal jobs programs, WWII enlistment, Vietnam draft, having a really terrible boss in a job you can't escape, any of these things provide that kind of experience. Took me until my mid 20s to have such an experience (bet you can guess which) and it is maybe the only thing of value I got out of grad school besides the degree.

[jelkwaz]

I sent this to Archie separately but generally being able to demonstrate your ability to understand different personas and their use cases for a product is big. And then communicating that effectively to the different groups who need the information about the product- sales needs to know how it benefits the customer so they can effectively pitch the product, engineers need implementation details (if you are responsible for this level of work, it might be a product owner doing this instead), and customers themselves need to know the benefits of your product.

Breaking into the field can be tough, especially at the FAANG level with their absurd grueling interview process. The biggest thing is demonstrating your empathy and problem identification and solving skills. These ultimately help you define the product vision and strategy.

This right here is the biggest thing. Communication is what it all boils down to. Having the empathy to look at a problem through the eyes of the different personas, and communicate that problem to your product team (development, design, change management, etc.) so that when they create something to address the problem that it is actually worthwhile.

One of the biggest things is to be problem-oriented, and understand what that means. Too many companies develop something (software, a physical product, whatever) in search of a problem rather than designing/creating something that is addressing a problem.

I will say that seeing "project management", "product management", and "program management" thrown around in here that those are in fact different disciplines. There's definitely a lot of overlap in kind of a venn diagram fashion, but it's worth reading into those and seeing what kind of fits your interest best.

[jelkwaz]

What would you consider to be major skills that are the basis of Program Management? As ive mentioned above, being a consultant has given me what I believe to be a lot of overlap, but trying to change careers when every PM role on LinkedIn has over 100+ applications means the competition is fierce. I could use any advice i can get right now.

I kind of mentioned it in the last response, but being able to identify market problems and effectively communicate those problems to your product team is the big thing. Also expectations management is another huge thing, but as a consultant I'm sure that's something you're probably already used it haha.

[Guitarman]

Thank you Pen and Jel. Both responses were absurdly helpful and I wrote them down. Sounds like something completely within my wheelhouse and what I did for almost 10 years consulting, so it should be a natural shift. Just trying to get that initial call will be the challenge.

[jelkwaz]

Yeah that's definitely the tough part. Some general advice that I'm sure you can read anywhere, but I'll offer up anyway is that it is definitely worthwhile to make sure as you're applying that your resume be tailored to each job. My experience has been they care less about having had the title for xyz amount of time, and more about having the skills that you need in the role. Make sure your experience summaries describe how you used the skills that they are looking for.

Yes this obviously adds time and effort, but that has definitely helped me be more successful when trying to get to the point of actually talking to potential employers.

[zoobernut]

On the job front tech is brutally bad right now specially IT. If you want a new career that has unbelievably high demand go into health. Not just nursing there are other more technical positions that pay well and are in high demand like imaging techs.

With respect to IT it is mostly bad at the bottom entry level area. If you have any experience you should be able to find something. If you can't take a look at your resume and your interview skills. Too many people botch one of those up and then blame the job market.

[jelkwaz]

On the job front tech is brutally bad right now specially IT. If you want a new career that has unbelievably high demand go into health. Not just nursing there are other more technical positions that pay well and are in high demand like imaging techs.

Yeah it really seems to me like this is more a case where the bottom is really bad right now. Middle and Senior level hasn't been too bad to me or my group of friends/coworkers, but that's definitely just a personal anecdote. It also depends on what part of the market you're trying to land in. Lower Middle and to a greater extent middle market tech firms seem like they're not terrible, but good luck trying to get into upper middle/fortune level companies right now. Those are definitely brutal.

With respect to IT it is mostly bad at the bottom entry level area. If you have any experience you should be able to find something. If you can't take a look at your resume and your interview skills. Too many people botch one of those up and then blame the job market.

Honestly I think the resume and interview skill part is so incredibly overlooked by all the people blaming and complaining about the job market. I am pretty regularly involved with screening people, and participating in interviews, and holy shit there are some bad resumes out there and people who have no idea how to talk in an interview.

[zoobernut]

People forget you can get good jobs in tech not at FAANG or fortune 500 companies. They also forget that 100% remote sector is where EVERYONE wants to be and is far more competitive than hybrid or in person positions. I have definitely heard some horror stories at entry level helpdesk.

To be fair I moved jobs leaving an MSP and getting hired on an internal team right before things started to go down hill so at this point I just need to work hard and stay where I am.

[mallister]

Can confirm. I'm a biomedical engineer, we can't get enough asses in seats.

[Zetanio]

every single healthcare person i know whether in EPIC system stuff, nurses, doctors, admins, or research is hiring or their company just finished a round and is about to go back into it.