The Stock Market Is Not The Economy Thread II

[archibaldcrane]

It's wild enough that 40M Californians are more productive than 64M Frenchies or 66M Brits. It's extremely wild we're more productive than 1.3B Indians.

But it looks like we're about to produce more than 83M Germans. What the hell.

https://twitter.com/GavinNewsom/stat...bZcO76f4A&s=19

[archibaldcrane]

If California went full YIMBY and America allowed foreigners who graduate from US schools a guaranteed work permit we'd be unstoppable.

[Cantih]

[archibaldcrane]

I wonder if we can overtake Japan before India catches us

[zoobernut]

I love seeing this. Specially since the main talking point from conservatives about how shitty CA is, is that business is being driven away from the state and doing business in CA sucks.

Now if only CA could solve the housing issue we would be golden.

[Spicyryan]

I love seeing this. Specially since the main talking point from conservatives about how shitty CA is, is that business is being driven away from the state and doing business in CA sucks.

Now if only CA could solve the housing issue we would be golden.

Build houses that are actually affordable in a large quantity in existing towns and cities. Problem solved.
Except certain groups will prevent the building of houses because they profit off of the scarcity in the market. This includes Boomers, and not just rental companies etc. So the issue won't be solved without subverting these people.

[zoobernut]

Build houses that are actually affordable in a large quantity in existing towns and cities. Problem solved.
Except certain groups will prevent the building of houses because they profit off of the scarcity in the market. This includes Boomers, and not just rental companies etc. So the issue won't be solved without subverting these people.

It isn't just about creating more housing in a raw effect it is ensuring that more housing is available for sale for people to purchase and live in full time. I know Archi is going to disagree with me on this but I believe that a healthy community has a variety of types of housing not just high density housing.

In CA in particular they need to stop investment properties and vacation homes, stop short term rentals in residential areas like AirBNB and VRBO, they need to streamline and make the building process less expensive so people can purchase blank land and develop it into a home without being millionaires, AND they need to increase the amount of high density housing and expand development. I also believe that people should be able to live where they work and not have to commute hours to get to other areas if they want to.

The most immediate and highest impact to housing is definitely increasing the amount of housing available but the other smaller issues should be addressed too.

[Spicyryan]

It isn't just about creating more housing in a raw effect it is ensuring that more housing is available for sale for people to purchase and live in full time. I know Archi is going to disagree with me on this but I believe that a healthy community has a variety of types of housing not just high density housing.

In CA in particular they need to stop investment properties and vacation homes, stop short term rentals in residential areas like AirBNB and VRBO, they need to streamline and make the building process less expensive so people can purchase blank land and develop it into a home without being millionaires, AND they need to increase the amount of high density housing and expand development. I also believe that people should be able to live where they work and not have to commute hours to get to other areas if they want to.

The most immediate and highest impact to housing is definitely increasing the amount of housing available but the other smaller issues should be addressed too.

I agree with all of that.

[Fondue]

It's wild enough that 40M Californians are more productive than 64M Frenchies or 66M Brits. It's extremely wild we're more productive than 1.3B Indians.

But it looks like we're about to produce more than 83M Germans. What the hell.

https://twitter.com/GavinNewsom/stat...bZcO76f4A&s=19

We? what do you produce again archibald?

[Buffy]

I’m sure there is a stat somewhere but what percentage of californias gdp is movies based in cali but filmed elsewhere? Does like mgm have their headquarters in LA and that makes it California gdp? I don’t know I’ve just been curious for a bit. Also California was 8th largest in the early 2000s so this has been a trend for a bit

[archibaldcrane]

We? what do you produce again archibald?

I'm in one of the greatest growth and export markets California has

95% growth in 3 years booyah

[Andalusian girls]

I’m sure there is a stat somewhere but what percentage of californias gdp is movies based in cali but filmed elsewhere? Does like mgm have their headquarters in LA and that makes it California gdp? I don’t know I’ve just been curious for a bit. Also California was 8th largest in the early 2000s so this has been a trend for a bit

ye it's been that way for a minute, but we're climbing up the rankings from #8 to nearing #4. 40 million Californians with a GDP per capita of $90,000. the film center of the world in Los Angeles and the tech center of the world in Silicon Valley and by a country mile the #1 agricultural state (more than #2 and #3 combined) rocking by far the most Fortune 500 companies. a world leader in green tech and our populace increasingly educated by what is by far the finest public university system in the world in the UC's.

California has long been the economic powerhouse of the country (with Texas, New York, Florida, and Illinois rounding out the other trillion dollar states), and is by far the largest sub-national economy in the world.

[Andalusian girls]

just a shame it had to happen in the woke hellhole cardboard straws white minority state

[Salodin]

It isn't just about creating more housing in a raw effect it is ensuring that more housing is available for sale for people to purchase and live in full time. I know Archi is going to disagree with me on this but I believe that a healthy community has a variety of types of housing not just high density housing.

In CA in particular they need to stop investment properties and vacation homes, stop short term rentals in residential areas like AirBNB and VRBO, they need to streamline and make the building process less expensive so people can purchase blank land and develop it into a home without being millionaires, AND they need to increase the amount of high density housing and expand development. I also believe that people should be able to live where they work and not have to commute hours to get to other areas if they want to.

The most immediate and highest impact to housing is definitely increasing the amount of housing available but the other smaller issues should be addressed too.

What you're describing here is building an entirely new city which no one really wants to do. They just want to live in the city they already know and love, but actually be able to afford to do so. Both these ideas are mutually exclusive, you cant magically build new homes in the city where everyone wants to live; there just isn't enough room. Build denser, or build a new adjacent city. Those are your options.

You can convert some old factories to apartments sure, but that sounds a lot like build denser to me /shrug.

[zoobernut]

What you're describing here is building an entirely new city which no one really wants to do. They just want to live in the city they already know and love, but actually be able to afford to do so. Both these ideas are mutually exclusive, you cant magically build new homes in the city where everyone wants to live; there just isn't enough room. Build denser, or build a new adjacent city. Those are your options.

You can convert some old factories to apartments sure, but that sounds a lot like build denser to me /shrug.

That is actually not true at all. Where I live for example is a good case study. I think ALL these need to be addressed. Stopping vacation homes, short term rentals (air bnb and VRBO), and adjusting how permits are given and how much they cost would help areas where building more isn't an option. Then building more and higher density outside those areas help other areas.

If you live in a popular vacation area like Hawaii or Monterey Bay area there are huge amounts of uninhabited homes that are either peoples second, third, fourth etc. vacation home or they are short term rentals.

Not only that but if you have a neighborhood of reasonably priced and sized homes and one rich person decides to tear down the house and build a McMansion it creates a domino effect which raises the property value of all the houses and drives people out and brings in more McMansions. I have seen that phenomenon destroy neighborhoods and communities.

I want to stress though building more housing and higher density housing is ABSOLUTELY the most effective way to fix the housing issue. It just isn't the only one and I wish the other issues would get attention too because it would help the housing issue in a broader sense.

It would also help reduce commute times and distances around areas that are very popular vacation spots by allowing the workers who service those areas to live close by.

[Spicyryan]

That is actually not true at all. Where I live for example is a good case study. I think ALL these need to be addressed. Stopping vacation homes, short term rentals (air bnb and VRBO), and adjusting how permits are given and how much they cost would help areas where building more isn't an option. Then building more and higher density outside those areas help other areas.

If you live in a popular vacation area like Hawaii or Monterey Bay area there are huge amounts of uninhabited homes that are either peoples second, third, fourth etc. vacation home or they are short term rentals.

Not only that but if you have a neighborhood of reasonably priced and sized homes and one rich person decides to tear down the house and build a McMansion it creates a domino effect which raises the property value of all the houses and drives people out and brings in more McMansions. I have seen that phenomenon destroy neighborhoods and communities.

I want to stress though building more housing and higher density housing is ABSOLUTELY the most effective way to fix the housing issue. It just isn't the only one and I wish the other issues would get attention too because it would help the housing issue in a broader sense.

It would also help reduce commute times and distances around areas that are very popular vacation spots by allowing the workers who service those areas to live close by.

What you are going to run into is all the song and dance around this. Which simply equates to going against the interests, desires, and preferences of capitalists and wannabe capitalists.

Otherwise, it is obviously quite better for society to not have people struggling to pay for or be homed because of cunts all aspiring to be landlords or own multiple properties for the sake of profit.

[zoobernut]

What you are going to run into is all the song and dance around this. Which simply equates to going against the interests, desires, and preferences of capitalists and wannabe capitalists.

Otherwise, it is obviously quite better for society to not have people struggling to pay for or be homed because of cunts all aspiring to be landlords or own multiple properties for the sake of profit.

This is exactly why this subject gets buried and rarely gets attention. Too much money and lobbying supporting all the predatory destructive real estate practices.

[Jaybar]

There's a lot to unpack in this conversation. There are a few urban movements out there that are looking into these issues that Sal brought up- how do we rebuild what we already have?

I was a staunch New Urbanist but haven't been up to their latest initiatives. Retrofitting old mall complexes is ripe for development - and not simply demolish the site wholesale (waste of energy and resources).

Other easy moves are allowing more coach or live-in housing, especially for the elderly and multi-genrational households. These rarely require additional land space, but you might lose some of your backyard or half-basement (oh no, anyway).

This assumes "if you build it, they will come", but you need to make it worthwhile. Just tossing up housing doesn't equate to move-ins. This needs to be done alongside serious infrastructure improvements and better urban design (i.e. mixed use, walkable communities) which benefit the lower and middle income homeowners/renters the most - a not insignificant portion of the population.

But a man can dream of a Renaissance of the American mid-size city.

[Salodin]

That is actually not true at all. Where I live for example is a good case study. I think ALL these need to be addressed. Stopping vacation homes, short term rentals (air bnb and VRBO), and adjusting how permits are given and how much they cost would help areas where building more isn't an option. Then building more and higher density outside those areas help other areas.

If you live in a popular vacation area like Hawaii or Monterey Bay area there are huge amounts of uninhabited homes that are either peoples second, third, fourth etc. vacation home or they are short term rentals.

Not only that but if you have a neighborhood of reasonably priced and sized homes and one rich person decides to tear down the house and build a McMansion it creates a domino effect which raises the property value of all the houses and drives people out and brings in more McMansions. I have seen that phenomenon destroy neighborhoods and communities.

I want to stress though building more housing and higher density housing is ABSOLUTELY the most effective way to fix the housing issue. It just isn't the only one and I wish the other issues would get attention too because it would help the housing issue in a broader sense.

It would also help reduce commute times and distances around areas that are very popular vacation spots by allowing the workers who service those areas to live close by.

I mean no one wants to live in a high density unit tho, if that's the misunderstanding. It's that there just is no way to give every single person their own yard and single family unit and not also give yourself unruly traffic and waste. Theres no way every single person can afford a home like that, and idk that people should be able to on any income.

But as it stands even average joe professionals cant afford modest homes in many states and idk, I think that's fucked up and we should do better.

[Spicyryan]

I mean no one wants to live in a high density unit tho, if that's the misunderstanding. It's that there just is no way to give every single person their own yard and single family unit and not also give yourself unruly traffic and waste. Theres no way every single person can afford a home like that, and idk that people should be able to on any income.

But as it stands even average joe professionals cant afford modest homes in many states and idk, I think that's fucked up and we should do better.

Everytime I say something like housing isn't an asset, but a necessity. Like ones health and being provided the proper level of available care for it, and that makes it a right if we actually practice what we socially preach. Ergo, housing is a right and not a commodity. I just get called a communist or something stupid.
Far too many "why should I pay for XYZ" people out there. Who don't care if housing people or providing education or healthcare is a net positive on their investment they think they are squandering by covering other people. All because the some form of media somewhere has at one time or another talked about the dangers of one rogue person. Who out of X number who might sit on their mom's couch with their "free" healthcare and a cat. All the while sinisterly not living up to their hollow virtues if the resources produced by the nation are better distributed.