FFXIV 6.0: Endwalker (December 7, 2021)

[Koul]

waited in queue and got a loading screen. ahhh yeah! got a "world is currently full. try again later" got logged out and now I'm back at 2.6k queue. welp, looks like I'm playing ruined king lol

[Prothescar]

Just finished up.

Spoiler: show

Satisfied with the conclusion as a 2.0 player. Endwalker does have some pacing issues, I feel as though a lot of it could have done with some extra padding with padding taken out of some (like, the entire leadup to actually fighting Zodiark felt comically rushed), but overall I enjoyed it.

I will say though that pushing things to such an absurd cosmic scale took me out a bit by the end, and I'm not sure that I would have had as much of a good impression on it overall if it didn't have all the cameos and endorphin injections. It's really hard to compare Shadowbringers and Endwalker for me right this moment but I do think that Shadowbringers felt perhaps a little better pacing wise and the big reveals and big lip alligator moments hit harder. I dunno, it is an entirely subjective problem to have. It also leaves me wondering how anything will feel as grand and epic in scale as fighting a cosmic entity that literally uses planets as weapons.

Guess we'll see.

p.s. what the fuck happened to Fordola and Arenvald

[Kaslo]

Just finished up.

Spoiler: show

Satisfied with the conclusion as a 2.0 player. Endwalker does have some pacing issues, I feel as though a lot of it could have done with some extra padding with padding taken out of some (like, the entire leadup to actually fighting Zodiark felt comically rushed), but overall I enjoyed it.

I will say though that pushing things to such an absurd cosmic scale took me out a bit by the end, and I'm not sure that I would have had as much of a good impression on it overall if it didn't have all the cameos and endorphin injections. It's really hard to compare Shadowbringers and Endwalker for me right this moment but I do think that Shadowbringers felt perhaps a little better pacing wise and the big reveals and big lip alligator moments hit harder. I dunno, it is an entirely subjective problem to have. It also leaves me wondering how anything will feel as grand and epic in scale as fighting a cosmic entity that literally uses planets as weapons.

Guess we'll see.

p.s. what the fuck happened to Fordola and Arenvald

Spoiler: show

Role quests

[Anoat]

I’m still only on the level 88 area of the MSQ so I totally get that things could change but I’ve been feeling strongly like

Shadowbringers was Infinity War

Endwalker is Endgame

[Uzor]

Yeah, I agree with that. Shadowbringers was a better expansion imo, but that does not make Endwalker bad by any means. And I agree with the pacing issues.

Spoiler: show

The game is waaaay too slow until about Zodiark, maybe even a litte bit after that. And then it changes and becomes waaay too fast. They really could have split Endwalker into two expansions; the first one ending with the defeat of Zodiark (and maybe Hydaelyn) and The Final Days starting, and the second expansion about handling The Final Days and ending with the defeat of Metreion. I also don't like the way things ended with Zenos, that came out of nowhere. Like, why was he "reclaiming the power of the dragon," he has never been a dragon before? And why did he becoem a dragon? Him changing his mind about fighting us until we defeated Metreion also made little sense. He should have been a trial fight imo, not a solo duty.

In fact, I think both Anima and Magus Sisters should have been trial fights, too, rather than just dungeon bosses. But maybe that's something for post-patch bosses. I think they even mentioned in an earlier interview (after Shadowbringers) that they thought it would be another 2 expansions before the Zodiark/Hydaelyn saga was over, so it does seem like they decided to combine them and cut out a lot of story to get it wrapped up in one expansion, which is a bit disappointing, but maybe it's for the best so that they can start working on their original story for 6.1 and onwards, free of the constraints that 1.0 set up.

Also; to those that think it's bad that a "new" villain is responsible for the End of Days and think Zenos should be the one behind it... What? Zenos behind behind it makes no sense. We all knew it was a new villain (albeit it could be argued that Fandaniel is behind it) that was behind it, and Zenos being behind it would be beyond stupid since he didn't exist during the first Final Days, and it wouldn't make sense with his character either since his sole driving force has been to fight us.

[Uzor]

Spoiler: show

Also, Zodiarc was such a well-designed boss fight. One of the best in the game imo. Made it such a disappointment with how bland Hydaelyn and Metreion was in comparison.

But the music throughout the entire game, god damn. When that final music plays as you head up the slope to confront Metreion was epic.

[arus2001]

Like, why was he "reclaiming the power of the dragon," he has never been a dragon before?[/spoiler]

Spoiler: show

I'm assuming it has to do with his association with Shinryu and the brief emo moment he had about the WoL ignoring him for greater threats. Maybe not the best equivalent, but might be easier to think of him as trying to be a bad guy equivalent of Estinien even though I can't recall any evidence of him really merging with Shinryu in any capacity and at best just pointing it at us during Stormblood.

That said, just hit the Kingdom Hearts phase of the expansion, myself, and don't really mind being spoiled since trying to connect dots from what I know and don't can be fun at times, too.

[Lokus]

Yeah, I agree with that. Shadowbringers was a better expansion imo, but that does not make Endwalker bad by any means. And I agree with the pacing issues.

Spoiler: show

The game is waaaay too slow until about Zodiark, maybe even a litte bit after that. And then it changes and becomes waaay too fast. They really could have split Endwalker into two expansions; the first one ending with the defeat of Zodiark (and maybe Hydaelyn) and The Final Days starting, and the second expansion about handling The Final Days and ending with the defeat of Metreion. I also don't like the way things ended with Zenos, that came out of nowhere. Like, why was he "reclaiming the power of the dragon," he has never been a dragon before? And why did he becoem a dragon? Him changing his mind about fighting us until we defeated Metreion also made little sense. He should have been a trial fight imo, not a solo duty.

In fact, I think both Anima and Magus Sisters should have been trial fights, too, rather than just dungeon bosses. But maybe that's something for post-patch bosses. I think they even mentioned in an earlier interview (after Shadowbringers) that they thought it would be another 2 expansions before the Zodiark/Hydaelyn saga was over, so it does seem like they decided to combine them and cut out a lot of story to get it wrapped up in one expansion, which is a bit disappointing, but maybe it's for the best so that they can start working on their original story for 6.1 and onwards, free of the constraints that 1.0 set up.

Also; to those that think it's bad that a "new" villain is responsible for the End of Days and think Zenos should be the one behind it... What? Zenos behind behind it makes no sense. We all knew it was a new villain (albeit it could be argued that Fandaniel is behind it) that was behind it, and Zenos being behind it would be beyond stupid since he didn't exist during the first Final Days, and it wouldn't make sense with his character either since his sole driving force has been to fight us.

Spoiler: show

He merged with Shinryu at the end of Stormblood 4.0 iirc so he's already been a dragon

[Kaslo]

Did anyone else feel like the second half of the MSQ felt like

Spoiler: show

Xeno series? I've been listening to Resonat Arc's podcast covering Xenogears and it seems to share some serious themes, plus Meteion is totally a High Entia

[Kaslo]

https://twitter.com/FF_XIV_EN/status...918960133?s=20

[Dotsudoku]

Just finished up.

Spoiler: show

Satisfied with the conclusion as a 2.0 player. Endwalker does have some pacing issues, I feel as though a lot of it could have done with some extra padding with padding taken out of some (like, the entire leadup to actually fighting Zodiark felt comically rushed), but overall I enjoyed it.

I will say though that pushing things to such an absurd cosmic scale took me out a bit by the end, and I'm not sure that I would have had as much of a good impression on it overall if it didn't have all the cameos and endorphin injections. It's really hard to compare Shadowbringers and Endwalker for me right this moment but I do think that Shadowbringers felt perhaps a little better pacing wise and the big reveals and big lip alligator moments hit harder. I dunno, it is an entirely subjective problem to have. It also leaves me wondering how anything will feel as grand and epic in scale as fighting a cosmic entity that literally uses planets as weapons.

Guess we'll see.

p.s. what the fuck happened to Fordola and Arenvald

Spoiler: show

I know virtually nothing about what creates a good narrative, only what I enjoy. That said, I didn't interpret anything anyone's been discussing as a pacing issue. Your Zodiark comment, for instance- the insane buildup in Garlemald to making relatively quick work of Zodiark seemed quite intentional and appropriate to me. Misdirection was the entire point. Zodiark was there and gone because we as the WoL were so focused on defeating this big bad we've been at indirect odds with for the entirety of the game, that we failed to consider that his elimination would cause the thing we're trying to avoid- the end days. Like, we knew that, both the player and the WoL. We knew that he was an affective fix to this very problem. But we got so caught up in dark man bad that we ran headfirst into the "wrong" course of action.

That's not to say I'm sure there weren't a myriad of improvements that could have been made. That's guaranteed. There are times when I think the score is, while incredible in isolation, completely mishandled in implementation. Heck, ShB was a masterpiece and I can still find things I didn't much care for. And I share your skepticism with regard to scale. They're dancing in tricky territory, and WoW has done a great job of showing how easy it is to completely fuck your current and likely all future narratives by being unable to control the flow of power. Like ya said, we'll see.

[arus2001]

Spoiler: show

I dunno, I agree that the Zodiark stuff came too fast. I mean, we're basically running on a decade of him being the implied big bad and we're finally within striking distance. Only what few seals were saved were yeeted within moments of getting on the moon and suddenly he's not even a mid-game boss. There was no real "oh shit" dread of him finally being unbound and possibly doing really bad things. It's just a bit of spectacle with "actually Fandaniel" pulling his string that we don't even really get a correlation of ego between him and Hydaelyn despite their establishment as balancing powers.

I can't even say it's something I feel an EX fight would save because those don't hold actual narrative significance. Whether or not this is a case of trying to defy expectations by swerving the point of encounter, we'll probably never know. I'd just say there was lost potential at what could've been a big bad.

[Dotsudoku]

Spoiler: show

additionally, I think it's important to recognize that we fought what amounts to the failed culmination of the big bad. The Zodiark we've been anticipating fighting for all these years never made an appearance. Our victories over the ascians prevented that from ever coming to fruition

[Gokulo]

Spoiler: show

additionally, I think it's important to recognize that we fought what amounts to the failed culmination of the big bad. The Zodiark we've been anticipating fighting for all these years never made an appearance. Our victories over the ascians prevented that from ever coming to fruition

Spoiler: show

I think this is the point that most people are forgetting. And is also the answer to the question people often ask - why they just didn't go to the moon earlier to break the seals - because their aim was to make Zodiark complete first, not to just free him being fragmented like that

[Lokus]

Spoiler: show

I think this is the point that most people are forgetting. And is also the answer to the question people often ask - why they just didn't go to the moon earlier to break the seals - because their aim was to make Zodiark complete first, not to just free him being fragmented like that

Spoiler: show

The watcher said that plainly as well though I can't remember if it was before or after we kill Zodiark. It was established in ShB that Zodiark wasn't going to be the big bad anyway as he was just a band-aid solution to what really messed up the planet.

[Hellfury]

all the !!#"%!"#%¤

Spoiler: show

follow/avoid detection/thingiemabobs are really wrecking the pace for me. Just finished the body snatcher part in Garlemald, and I was loving the story, then that came in, and while I recognize the technical quality of the segment, I was already at the "enough of this shit..." stage mentally...

[Lyltia]

Spoiler: show

I was totally on board until the 5th zone. Going to the moon, the early Zodiark exit, all great. I loved going to the past and hanging out with the ancients, but feelings and emotions being the key to the Final Days is just such a tired trope. Didn't care about Meteion.
Just the one ancient thought to make a creation that could leave the star? It was all a bit much to swallow but I was willing to see where they took it, and was really disappointed with the entire last zone. Weightless sacrifices meant nothing. Even the name of the zone was groan-worthy. Lead up to the final boss was interminable and predictable. Final boss felt real generic. I can see the logic behind making it a unique character and not a FF mainstay, but I think it would've been better if they had gone that route. As it is they went too big and too cosmic, going to be real hard to top those stakes going forward. Really feels like they reached way too far. ​Final solo fight was just pointless. I can appreciate that they took Zenos in a completely different direction than expected, but in the end I just didn't care about him anymore. The denouement was about 5x longer than it needed to be, so much backslapping I almost skipped cutscenes. All of the Scions are great but I just wanted them to shut up at the end. Everything they built up around the ancients and Zodiark/Hydaelyn was really well-handled, but deciding to make it all about the power of feelings in the end just really killed it for me. I still loved the journey but feel like they really did not stick the landing.

[Dotsudoku]

Spoiler: show

not really interested in doing too many back-n-forths, because everything is so subjective and open to interpretation, but things I took away differently:

1) I think "power of feelings" is a bit of an oversimplification. It's a fundamental force of the universe that seems to only interact with the spirit. You can call it a trope, but I'd call it a concept so thoroughly ingrained in actual humans that it's a hard thing to judge for being put into a fantasy narrative

2) While I understand how the sacrifices can seem weightless, I think they're only so if you ignore that Emet Selch and Hythlodeous had to sacrifice the portion of their being that permitted them to linger. Had they not done so, we would have lost everyone else. I also think that it wouldn't be an issue at all had we not gone into the expansion expecting a scion to die, but I suppose that's the trailer's fault

3) Like I said before, going too cosmic is dangerous and they definitely need to be careful going forward, by importantly it wasn't some omnipotent cosmic figure that we defeated. A character with a relatively unimpressive power level just so happened to be finely tuned to control something that put us at a serious disadvantage. I think it only feels too grand and cosmic because she set up shop on the "edge of the universe". If anything, the direction they've taken since ShB is pretty brilliant. Before then, we were under the impression that we were in the midst of a battle between two actual gods. That's a runaway-cosmos if I've ever seen one.

4) Dunno what to really say about the last bit. I loved everything you hated. Some of my favorite parts of this expansion were moments of quality time with the scions, and I was ecstatic that Zenos's arc ended the way it did. Different strokes.

[6souls]

[Shenrien]

Just finished up.

Spoiler: show

Satisfied with the conclusion as a 2.0 player. Endwalker does have some pacing issues, I feel as though a lot of it could have done with some extra padding with padding taken out of some (like, the entire leadup to actually fighting Zodiark felt comically rushed), but overall I enjoyed it.

I will say though that pushing things to such an absurd cosmic scale took me out a bit by the end, and I'm not sure that I would have had as much of a good impression on it overall if it didn't have all the cameos and endorphin injections. It's really hard to compare Shadowbringers and Endwalker for me right this moment but I do think that Shadowbringers felt perhaps a little better pacing wise and the big reveals and big lip alligator moments hit harder. I dunno, it is an entirely subjective problem to have. It also leaves me wondering how anything will feel as grand and epic in scale as fighting a cosmic entity that literally uses planets as weapons.

Guess we'll see.

p.s. what the fuck happened to Fordola and Arenvald

About what you asked at the end.

Spoiler: show

Fordola and Arenvald get their moment in the healer role quest