Challenge 37: Spies, Lies and Allies (Aug 11, 2021)

**Xno Kappa** · 2022-08-24 22:21

It’s the same issues Sara had on her survivor seasons. She gets easily riled up when another female is having consistent success. She gets flustered and begins to peacock.

I really wish they would start putting a cap on the amount of times someone can be sent in to elimination. It’s always lame as hell when guys like Leo, Jay, and dating all the way back to Derrick get constantly thrown in.

**Vil** · 2022-08-24 22:45

Eh, I don't think it was really that bad. He made it to like the halfway point the first time he went in and one of these times it was because he was last place in the challenge. It could have been a lot worse for the guy considering he was doing poor in challenges and had no allies.

And fair point about Sarah. I remember after she won, it seemed pretty clear that they gave her a really kind edit. Having Tony with her for the two other seasons helped. Ben has been pretty much a non-factor this season so she's just been acting like a fool here with nobody to kind of soften the edit.

**Vil** · 2022-08-31 21:15

RIP Fab Five: 8/31-8/31 I love how they basically make/name that right in front of the people they're not including, and then constantly get caught talking about them throughout this episode.

"They're trying to BLAAAHK me!" Shout out to all those people who ranged from "I'm not getting involved" to "Yeah, I'm not going to do what you want."

The whole thing was kind of hilarious because it's like... if they do, then you get your chance to win an elimination, so is it that bad? Cayla questioning it though, eh. Let's not act like you wouldn't have tried to put in Angela vs. Alyssa if one of them got last. They weren't going to win since they'd definitely get blocked if they got close.

Should they have piled on someone else so that Sarah would have to ask to go into elimination maybe? If motormouth Sarah doesn't, then she's not qualified, which isn't a bad thing either.

Everybody should be afraid of Sarah back in the house now though. The female that has performed the worst on the show to this point. What a lame elimination. It's like the cycling one from early in the season, but less interesting. "Here, run in a hamster wheel for a short bit."

**Byrd** · 2022-09-07 11:26

The Challenge: Untold History will premiere on MTV on September 21st at 8pm.

Sounds like this is a three part series, so probably three weeks of this, and then maybe Season 38 starts after that?

**Xno Kappa** · 2022-09-07 15:30

Wonder if they’re gonna pretend Tonya never existed.

**Vil** · 2022-09-07 21:18

I'll check out at least the first episode but I feel like my expectations for it are kind of like reunions, especially the multi-episode ones. Too much time on stuff that everyone knows without offering any real new insight, droning on about things that nobody cared about, and/or just making it the Bananas Hour. I'll look forward to an inevitable reddit thread running down the revisionist history that they try.

David pulling the "we're Big Brother" card 3/4 through the season. That's like the "but we're veterans" card that people will try when appealing to someone that they've not worked with at all through the first dozen rounds.

Did they cut like a billion rounds from this elimination? Because that was laughable if that was the best they had to show for it. I'm tired of the reliance on "classics" for eliminations when they're flops or just stupidly dangerous most of the time anymore. Unfortunately, a good amount of the new ones aren't great either, but I'll put that on the challenge creation department on this show being terrible and uninspired.

Enzo threatening to see a different side of him when he was shown for like a total of half a year prior to this. Is Dom someone that would be definitely a better partner in a part of a final? Take swimming out of the picture and I don't know, but he's someone that wouldn't surprise me if he kind of cracked some challenge.

This has been a good season overall, but it kind of lost its momentum a few weeks back, and when you throw in the pace of the game slowing down too, it's a bad combo.

**Vil** · 2022-09-14 22:14

What an absolute trainwreck.

This season truly goes out with a whimper. Even for Challenge standards, this is some of the worst production in recent memory. Starting with Ben eating it in the challenge. Then the suspicious "co-winners" for the guys. Then flying Ben out there to send him off. The whole "one woman will be alone". The handling of the Justine/Angela solo legs. Weather happens, but a production company should be prepared for things and it didn't seem like they were.

But please look forward to the Challenge Championship, streaming only on Paramount+!!!!!!

also, that Angela DQ feels like TJ's revenge for the overnight portion of Invasion of the Champions. I don't remember all the details, something like "whoever threads the most beads by the time I come back in the morning can assign a time penalty" and at some point they just all agreed to stop and go to sleep.

**Xno Kappa** · 2022-09-15 04:28

What a colossal trainwreck.

Spoiler: show

**Vil** · 2022-09-15 10:37

Recap of Tyson's podcast - https://www.reddit.com/r/MtvChalleng...challenge_usa/

Most of this stuff checks out with things that others had said about the show in the past and how screwy things can be, plus how things were shown in those episodes. Seeing some comments in that thread, I didn't even realize that there were still points going in that final leg. I kind of spaced out and think I just thought they did a staggered start.

Really the only person that I'd say I definitely wouldn't want to see again is Enzo. Dude just sleeps to the end of each season he's been on and then gets obliterated. As a character, one time was enough, and that was like... 12 years ago. I'd prefer to not have to deal with Sarah, but at least there's plenty to laugh at her over. Everyone else brought something or at worst was kind of "ok as a filler casting". Oh, David. lmao. Maybe he just has a cousin that works for CBS, I dunno.

**Xno Kappa** · 2022-09-15 13:01

Originally Posted by Vil

Recap of Tyson's podcast - https://www.reddit.com/r/MtvChalleng...challenge_usa/

Straight clown shoes.

The Challenge's production quality has always been a notch below more traditional reality competition shows, but god damn you're on network television now yet you still put out this garbage? For years it was kind of an open secret among challenge fans that production was lazy as hell and that it's doubtful they ever even tested their own courses. And after everyone saw for themselves on national television, Tyson flat out confirms it. On the Finals no less when you had ample time to re-adjust.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is the one and only season we'll ever get The Challenge on a primetime network, and it gets placed back on cable television. Heads are gonna roll.

**Byrd** · 2022-09-15 16:36

Nothing about that final was good. What a terrible introduction to CBS by the Challenge. One of things that excited me about The Challenge coming to CBS was I expected the show to bump up its Standards & Practices department, but it very clearly did not do that. Justin Booth's interview with EW.com doesn't show like he learned anything from it, either. It almost feels like he is delighted about how many people quit.

General Complaints/Thoughts:

Fuck Enzo. I watched his first season of Big Brother and was unimpressed, don't know why he keeps getting invited back for things. He's not particularly interesting or skilled.
I feel terrible for Desi. And she is ridiculously beautiful. I really hope she comes back. Production really shit the bed on this one. Not as much as Enzo shit the bed, but that was terrible game design.
Tyson may be snarky as shit, but he is one hell of a narrator.
I didn't have a lot of sympathy for Angela initially, and it really felt like she didn't try. I understand her position of "I can't win here," but you can't *not try.* Having read a little bit of Tyson's interview and podcast, I do feel a little worse for her. But still, you can't not try in The Challenge. That doesn't work, and never has.
Fuck production for not making an effort to rebalance the course after Ben got DQ'ed. They could have even introduced a purge.
No matter who got stuck with Enzo was getting DQ'ed in phase one. That was effectively a random DQ for whatever woman lost that random 'algorithm'. Speaking of which, was that even really spinning separately? It looked like the 'bar' in the same row was linked and spinning in sequence.
Fuck production for not providing official rules for things. Keeping rules "in my head" is terrible, from Tyson's podcast.
Cayla seemed to go from confident and "Sudoku! I love Sudoku" to crying and quitting immediately, which was weird. I understand it was cold and they were sleep deprived and hungry and miserable, but something was off there. If you're good at Sudoku, that was an easy one.
If you can time out of the first puzzle, why couldn't you time out of the second? Inconsistent rules are terrible in any game, much less one where the prize is a quarter million dollars.
Fuck Enzo. Did he not know what he was getting into when he signed up for this?
Fuck CBS for not upping production quality with regard to Standards & Practices.
It must have been so cold and miserable on that mountain for that many people to quit. And with no hope of direction on a puzzle?
Fuck Justin Booth. His show is so disorganized when it comes to consistency and fairness that this final probably drove a lot of new viewers away from the show for good. CBS/BM needs to replace Justin Booth. Bring in someone with some semblance of consistency and transparency. Less focus on "neat ideas" and more focus on "solid execution." Would improve the show dramatically. It definitely soured me on the show some, and I'm a die hard.
I did like seeing video of Kiki at the end, that was a nice culmination of the season long story line.
Fuck Enzo.

On another note, this dropped today:

People still want to do a season 38 Fantasy league?

**Xno Kappa** · 2022-09-15 17:21

I don’t blame Angela one bit. I would’ve been under the assumption too that I would’ve simply been timed out or defaulted to last place after seeing just that happen to Justine. Overnight leg or not.

Saw someone make a great point. Because they refused to make any meaningful adjustment to the overnight portion, Angela effectively did not have the option to sleep versus her peers. Especially if everything played out as it did per Tyson.

So it was all bullshit from the get go.

**Xno Kappa** · 2022-09-15 17:22

Having said that I’m down for a fantasy league if we still have the usual crew lol.

**Vil** · 2022-09-15 18:36

I'm kind of wondering what the general reaction to this is from the "new viewer", since there's a lot of different groups. There's plenty of folks that will watch the Challenge anyway. There's those that will be more/less interested because it doesn't have the Kaycee/Fessy/Josh/Tori/Devin crew. But the people who haven't seen the show before/in a while and checked it out because "hey, there's people I know on this"... the whole thing looks bush league. Had Danny been the sole winner, I wouldn't say that the end of this would have been salvaged, but they maybe could have tried to build a story around that. Having the "inspirational" Sarah get to split it after this show spent the entire season properly dunking on her? I don't get it.

Anyway, I'm in for fantasy. Not too excited by the cast and haven't ever cared about doing a theme like this one, but the reality is I'm going to be watching anyway so may as well have some fun with it.

**Byrd** · 2022-09-15 19:10

Originally Posted by Xno Kappa

I don’t blame Angela one bit. I would’ve been under the assumption too that I would’ve simply been timed out or defaulted to last place after seeing just that happen to Justine. Overnight leg or not.

I feel there is a pretty substantial difference - Justine was still working towards the goal, though. Production told her she was done. Angela just stopped making an effort to finish. That being said, given her 2/3 as much as everyone else is awful since she's the only person and can swap out. Even 1/2 as much would be too much, IMHO. I wouldn't be surprised if she had tried to clarify that with production before going to bed, not getting an answer because the rules are "in his head," getting extremely frustrated and giving up.

I'm annoyed that they imbalanced the game that much, but am much more pissed off for Desi than I am for her. And probably equal her with the folks who didn't know how to do Sudoku who weren't even given the rules to the puzzle. The whole thing was just a first rate clusterfuck.

Two people are down for fantasy, that's enough, I'll send out the e-mail to see if Headspace and Moss are down, and we'll get started. Got a month or so since the three weeks of the Challenge 'documentary' is happening.

**Vil** · 2022-09-15 20:03

So then give her 0 points instead of 4th(?) place points, but that was clearly a "this person isn't doing it the way *I* want them to do it". Eating penalties, etc. has a long history in reality shows. War of the Worlds final, Wes just sat down and didn't even try one thing so he could get a full 30 minutes of rest and it was heralded as a smart move. There are differences in scale, but the intent is similar.

So how much progress was she supposed to have made before it being deemed "enough"? I really don't have a problem if people are going to be bothered by her just deciding to not do it but I don't see that as a situation where "TJ"/Justin Booth/whomever needed to take action.

But of all this the "I have the rule in my head" is probably the funniest. I just can't imagine uttering those words with a straight face.

**Byrd** · 2022-09-21 17:58

Red is Not a Flavor is back:

**Byrd** · 2022-09-22 11:27

Anyone else watch the first episode of The Challenge documentary last night? I only caught the first hour (two hours of Survivor, 1 hour of Amazing Race and 2 hours of The Challenge in one night is a lot).

Not really concerned about spoilers, so not bothering with the tags, but so far it's been nothing but a fluff piece. Fun, but not examining anything remotely controversial, which is frustrating. It referred to Kenny as "Wes' partner" at one point, and while we've seen clips of Kenny, Evan, Tonya as part of other highlights, there's been no direct mention of them. We haven't gotten to the Camilla phase yet, but I'll be surprised if they bring her up.

I'm still going to watch the rest of it, but it very much feels like a pep rally or extended clip show rather than a 'documentary.' I would much prefer to see a real Ken Burns style documentary on the show.

**Vil** · 2022-09-22 12:23

That sounds kind of like what I expected and while I have it recorded, not sure I'll bother watching. Maybe I'll skim a recap or something. The "Underdogs" and "GOATs" episodes next week, eh. Just makes me think of youtube top 10 lists where I'll scroll to see who makes the list/the order but not bother watching.

**Byrd** · 2022-09-26 16:18

Originally Posted by Vil

That sounds kind of like what I expected and while I have it recorded, not sure I'll bother watching. Maybe I'll skim a recap or something. The "Underdogs" and "GOATs" episodes next week, eh. Just makes me think of youtube top 10 lists where I'll scroll to see who makes the list/the order but not bother watching.

Yeah, pretty much. But there is some Unseen Footage, which is kind of fun. And some people who we haven't seen in a long while were at least interviewed for the show, so it was fun to see Landon and Rachel back in some Challenge related capacity.

I've heard back from everyone except Moss, so I will give him a couple more days before setting up a draft order and starting a new thread.

Thread: Challenge 37: Spies, Lies and Allies (Aug 11, 2021)

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