SCOTUS Thread (News and Discussion) III: Abandoning 90 Years of Precedent

[Day]

ah well shucks if a 78 year old white dude is the best we can do guess it's fine

[Tyche]

What would the SCOTUS makeup be if the person who got the most votes became president? 6-3 or 7-2 liberal majority.

Fucking wild that we are considered a democracy. And God damn is that an infuriating statline

[Meresgi]

The fact this still has to be said in 2022 is evidence enough how woefully incompetent and naive the left is.

Don't tell that to super left podcasts like Daily Zeitgeist or others who think you can just hard brake the US government and divert to a new course in the span of even 2yrs

[synistar]

What would the SCOTUS makeup be if the person who got the most votes became president? 6-3 or 7-2 liberal majority.

Fucking wild that we are considered a democracy. And God damn is that an infuriating statline

Probably 5-4 liberal lean only because I don't believe the filibuster would have been nuked. Not like Garland would have been any more liberal than KBJ, Sotamayor, or Kagan. At the very least, it would have been a liberal chief justice if Gore somehow got a second term if he didn't fuck up the 9/11 response (lol Gulf War II response was fucked regardless)

[Spicyryan]

You're not happy with Biden, which is small incrementalism moving forward, whereas Trump (or any R) is many steps backwards. There's no other mysterious 3rd choice here, so it's obvious which choice is the better one.

Essentially you are ignoring the fundamental flaws and asserting there is only one choice. Following this same line of reasoning means to then blames others for the regressive forces in the country seeing wins. The same party which matains a status quo at best while that other "backwards stepping" party has successfully dragged democrats to the right. Biden is a prime example of that statement as is any "reach across the aisle" democrat.

"A vote for Joe Manchin or Joe Biden or Tim Kaine or Nancy Pelosi or Diane Feinstein is the only choice to move incrementally forward, less we be dragged back to the dark ages!" No, that is the problem, and by voting in fear like that you help propagate these root causes. It doesn't matter how "unrealistic" any alternative is because that baseline means is no winning compromise. So go vote every 4 years and pretend it will be okay. I assert that this mindset being so ubiquitous is the reason we are in this sort of situation.

The reasonable among us stopped believing in a sky daddy. Stopped believing you can be anything you want when you grow up. Stopped believing that we live in a meritocracy where hard work will see you achieve the american dream. So lets stop asserting the equally flawed notions about the lesser of two evils being the only option.

TL;DR:

Spoiler: show

[thetruepandagod]

i for one look forward to a hillary/trump 2024 rematch

[Koyangi]

Essentially you are ignoring the fundamental flaws and asserting there is only one choice. Following this same line of reasoning means to then blames others for the regressive forces in the country seeing wins. The same party which matains a status quo at best while that other "backwards stepping" party has successfully dragged democrats to the right. Biden is a prime example of that statement as is any "reach across the aisle" democrat.

"A vote for Joe Manchin or Joe Biden or Tim Kaine or Nancy Pelosi or Diane Feinstein is the only choice to move incrementally forward, less we be dragged back to the dark ages!" No, that is the problem, and by voting in fear like that you help propagate these root causes. It doesn't matter how "unrealistic" any alternative is because that baseline means is no winning compromise. So go vote every 4 years and pretend it will be okay. I assert that this mindset being so ubiquitous is the reason we are in this sort of situation.

The reasonable among us stopped believing in a sky daddy. Stopped believing you can be anything you want when you grow up. Stopped believing that we live in a meritocracy where hard work will see you achieve the american dream. So lets stop asserting the equally flawed notions about the lesser of two evils being the only option.

TL;DR:

Spoiler: show

I'm not ignoring anything. I live in reality. Every 4 years, a D or an R will win, not a 3rd choice. I didn't say I liked that it is this way or that I don't understand all the other underlying stuff, but there's no other realistic solution, unless, somehow you actually know of one noone else does (that's realistic).

[Tyrath]

i for one look forward to a hillary/trump 2024 rematch

[Xno Kappa]

I'm not ignoring anything. I live in reality. Every 4 years, a D or an R will win, not a 3rd choice. I didn't say I liked that it is this way or that I don't understand all the other underlying stuff, but there's no other realistic solution, unless, somehow you actually know of one noone else does (that's realistic).

The 3rd choice is obviously Bernie Sanders!

[Koyangi]

The 3rd choice is obviously Bernie Sanders!

[Spicyryan]

I'm not ignoring anything. I live in reality. Every 4 years, a D or an R will win, not a 3rd choice. I didn't say I liked that it is this way or that I don't understand all the other underlying stuff, but there's no other realistic solution, unless, somehow you actually know of one noone else does (that's realistic).

So voting for the right-wing party that only pretends to be socially sensitive to the rights of others is the best answer you can muster? Compared to the further right wing party that doesn't pretend to care about the rights of others. Is that the reality you want to accept by casting that vote?

That defeatist mythos of "realistic solutions" first starts with not encouraging people to go on with the charade by telling them to hold their nose while voting for X or Y. That "abortion is on the ballot in 2020" when it always fucking was, and look what happened anyway in defiance of the "vote the lesser of two evils" silliness. Real solutions only start when we talk about issues beyond "burger boy tried to choke his secret service agent amidst a coup he couldn't walk to" down to their root causes. Raise awareness on the concept of class consciousness, why certain things are how they are and how they work, collectively bargain in the workplace, and be aware of local elections. Those actions have more impact in your life than ever voting in the presidential election. Otherwise your vote really doesn't mean anything. Every vote counts in elections that have tangible prospects of beneficial outcomes from real candidates, and not in the presidential election or senate. We can giggle about Bernie Sanders, but he had a shot at doing more for the posters here rather than any other one running.

What we potentially gain from these big elections at most is the possibility of concessions. Concessions which aren't nearly enough, aim to placate us further, and only come when demanded beyond the ballot box. Lets stop pretending that every vote counts, that 2016 or 2020 was "the most important election", etc. If you just stay in that mindset then you will never see the failing medical system in America remedied, Flint Michigan will continue to not have clean fucking water, the Supreme Court will stay broken, and so on. The democratic process is quite intentionally distorted and dysfunctional. That is why your sort of rhetoric is the dominate one and why money wins elections. That is why money sees your voting power stolen by louder interest groups. Then again, maybe if we vote hard enough and admonish those who don't then we can pretend it will get the money out of politics, if only we are promised it by a suave enough candidate.

Obama promised to codify abortion, or fix healthcare, or work across the isle, or close Guantanamo, or end the war in Afghanistan, or cut the deficit, or reform immigration, or save millions of people from losing their houses in '09, or get the minimum wage raised for those "hard working folks out there that struggle to make ends meet", or anything else I don't immediately remember. These same sorts of promises are then recycled over and over each "most important election" and coincidentally never fulfilled or fully realized. So year after year we watch the real wages of Americans utterly stagnate since the 80s, and that was before the inflation of which Biden is doing fuck all about. Since Biden like all your other lesser of two evils won't take a political hit to even repeal the useless Trump era China Tarrifs that only hurts America and increases inflation. If he did then people wouldn't vote as hard of course, but maybe he can remind them that abortion is still on the ballot. Who was vice president while Obama talked about that being a focus before abandoning it? Right, that lesser of the evils with a long history of being anti-abortion.

Meanwhile, the actual candidates who want to genuinely help people get torpedoed by the parties if they dont toe the party line. AoC is a good example of this as are any politicians outside of the establishment that get primaried by it, no funding from it, fund their opponents, etc. So no, that is more the actual reality of casting that vote for either corrupt party. We can sit here and demonize McConnel for being the piece of shit that he is, but in capitalism politics is a power game of self-enrichment. They are going to work to benefit the wealthy and give lip service to the voters. Voting in America has never and likely will never fix that. Least of all if we hold to the hollow rhetoric that not voting D or R is personal folly.

[Krandor]

That's a whole lot of worlds to not say jack shit, you should definitely be a politician

[NynJa]

tl;dr

[Spicyryan]

That's a whole lot of worlds to not say jack shit, you should definitely be a politician

Said more than you.

[Kaslo]

So voting for the right-wing party that only pretends to be socially sensitive to the rights of others is the best answer you can muster? Compared to the further right wing party that doesn't pretend to care about the rights of others. Is that the reality you want to accept by casting that vote?

Yes, because it is FUCKING REALITY.

[Spicyryan]

Yes, because it is FUCKING REALITY.

No, it's not.

I know we casually use Stockholm around here, but damn.

[Koyangi]

I'm not ignoring anything. I live in reality. Every 4 years, a D or an R will win, not a 3rd choice. I didn't say I liked that it is this way or that I don't understand all the other underlying stuff, but there's no other realistic solution, unless, somehow you actually know of one noone else does (that's realistic).

Reading is hard.

[Milkster]

I wonder if it's just a self fulfilling prophecy that Americans have trapped themselves in the two party system. Plenty of people agree with 3rd party or independent candidates but get berated into the it's a wasted vote or they have no chance of winning . Then people get dejected enough and vote for one of the two parties or not at all. Then they get blasted with you can't vote for someone young because they don't have the experience or relationships in congress to get things done and if you don't vote for them doom and gloom (which has happened). Just curious at what point do Americans break from the shackles of the two party nonsense. Probably never because Republicans have gone full fascism and not voting for democrats just helps Republicans erode the failing project faster. Then you have the people who scream the left and right are just the same. Or those that say the left is too radical and naive and the infighting for weird, mundane reasons, while Republicans are actively working to undo decades of civil rights.

It's interesting to watch it crash and burn around us.

[Koyangi]

If we had ranked choice voting, then voting 3rd party would be worth it, because a 2nd, 3rd vote etc can be any other D leaning party and R is last (if you have to choose all and just rank them with R always being last). Since it's a winner take all, cast 1 vote situation, we have to choose the lesser amongst the top 2 choices, because no amount of 3rd party voting will get them in office but what it will do is mean less votes for the lesser of 2 evils of the above; therefore, the worst of the top 2 has a higher chance of winning.

[Drai]

Embrace the superior Canadian Parliament system...in which you have more then 2 parties to vote for but Eastern Canada has so many seats in the house that they pretty much decide the elections by themselves lol