SCOTUS Thread (News and Discussion) III: Abandoning 90 Years of Precedent

[kuronosan]

Nah they don't think Trump is better lol. They think by not voting the preferred candidate that the Dems will learn a lesson and put forth a better candidate 4 years later. At the cost of 4 years of Trump.

More satire than literal. I remember when I was struggling thinking of a Hilary vote and then Archi laid down some facts and I was like "yea no all this shit is way more important".

Yet all over Reddit and Twitter all I see are stupid yokels going THE DEMS WILL CHANGE IF I DON'T VOTE THEY NEED TO EARN MY VOTE LOLZ with no retrospect as to how that shit turned out for us this time.

I seriously worry about this country's future.

[NynJa]

I was agreeing and providing an example ya putz.

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TIL "nope" = agreement.

[Krandor]

Reddit and Twitter

Well here's your first problem

[Meresgi]

okay but doesn't the elimination of the filibuster work both ways

Yes, and? GoP have proven time and time again they will do everything they can do ram anything through despite a filibuster or not sooooo what do we lose exactly? Because of Gerrymandering and other shit the Dems are at a constant disadvantage. This has been discussed thousands of times as to why it would be 100% beneficial for Dems to remove the filibuster EVEN IF the GoP win back some of their seats and the Dems lose the majority.

The left's purity test should be is the opponent worse, if so, vote for your guy/gal at all costs.

I think the "lessor of 2 evils" has been rammed down Dems throats so many times with no real measure of advancement afterwards that people are justifiably jaded. Am I not gonna vote or vote for Trump in 2024 or not vote in midterms? Nope, but do I totally get why people would be so jaded as to not vote in midterms or anything else after years and years of "Yeah but once we get office we'll be able to do everything for you!" followed by "Oh sowwy guys....our hands are super duper tied We have literally no options at all" or "Yeah but we'll do that in the 2nd half, after we lose the midterms and our majority! Don't worry, just vote harder for us".

A lot of people, and I don't blame them, have a mindset of "fucking burn it, it's never worked for me anyways" in order to teach the left a lesson...which it will never learn anyways.

[Zealot]

What measure of advancement are you looking for? Under Democratic administrations we balanced the budget, dug out of a recession caused by Republicans who blew up the balanced budget, installed the framework for universal health care for the first time in 100 years, saw the legalization of gay marriage and the beginning of Marijuana legalization, laid out processes to start making it easier for illegal immigrants to remain here, made innumerable (mostly blocked) attempts to safeguard and expand voting rights, ended (until the GOP restarted) support for private prisons, and they've always been at the forefront of trying to legislate around climate change since Joe Biden wrote the first climate protection bill during the Reagan years.

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[Andalusian girls]

yes but besides that what have the Romans ever done for us

[Lucavi]

Nah they don't think Trump is better lol. They think by not voting the preferred candidate that the Dems will learn a lesson and put forth a better candidate 4 years later. At the cost of 4 years of Trump.

This, goddammit. Shit thinking like this got the Supreme Court in the shambles that its currently in.

Asshole willing to die on a fucking hill to "teach them a lesson".

[Qalbert]

Ideally, yes, you shouldn't have to choose the lesser of two evils, and I can understand the desire to say "I am not supporting this shitty nominee" but failing to vote for the lesser is essentially tacitly endorsing the greater.

[Lucavi]

Exactly. I understand the "intent", but while you're standing up for your intent, we're fucking having the SCOTUS packed with assholes nominated by presidents who can't even be arsed to win the popular fucking vote.

This country frustrates me.
This planet frustrates me.

[Yabby]

People frustrate you.

[Lucavi]

Yeah. The land itself is pretty great. We should probably stop ruining it.

[Gredival]

Because sheep in the Democratic party don't have any answers. They feel morally superior to vote against Republicans and the only way in their minds to do that is to vote Democrat. At the end of the day it's a self-serving right wing party. A "shut up and get in line to vote blue no matter who" is utterly tone-deaf and logically incoherent. Anyone who really believes in these Hillary and Biden candidates is misguided.

[Gredival]

Eliminate the filibuster and pack the court.

That requires Manchin and Sinema; the whole point is that progress can only go at the pace of the most conservative member of the Democratic coalition.

Then you decide well Machin has to go, congrats we don't even have a 50-50 with VP tiebreaker to get the few things we can through.

[Spicyryan]

Yeah, the incrementalism of the Democratic party is utter horseshit. Touting incrementalism in this case is just an intellectually dishonest cop-out to the political climate for the past couple decades.
When the turkey burns in the oven on Thanksgiving you cant just slowly unburn it. You throw it away and make a better turkey. To suggest sticking with an inedible turkey because you cant imagine another viable alternative then you never will have an edible turkey on your table.

Fundamental and sweeping changes are required instead of sticking more fingers in the dike-ocratic party while pretending it will save our democracy because guess what, the only meaningful incrementalism is coming from the right as they ratchet the dems to the right and they don't return left once a Biden comes into office. So when the same shit is on the ballot time and again, nothing really changes, and people openly and rightfully mock the democrats for not having an actual agenda. Then that is because your purported solution is the problem. Incrementalism by this point would make the country metaphorically no better than its many zombie companies so rolling over their debt with an inability to pay it off. Much like tackling the matter of global climate change. The time to actually do that incrementally has passed, and now it will not be realized without more drastic attention.

That requires Manchin and Sinema; the whole point is that progress can only go at the pace of the most conservative member of the Democratic coalition.

Then you decide well Machin has to go, congrats we don't even have a 50-50 with VP tiebreaker to get the few things we can through.

So no progress then? Lol.

When you keep throwing around "progress" like this you either are sticking your head in the sand or simply want to beat the word so badly with the platitudinal ugly stick that it will be beyond recognition of what actual progress is. You shouldn't in good conscience keep supporting a party that leaves its voters holding the bag like some battered wife.

If the democrats had every seat in the house and senate tomorrow then they still wouldn't get the job done. They aren't interested in tackling a financial sector that builds a bigger house of cards with their culture of disassociating risk with consequence. They will never nationalize the oil industry to institute a managed decline rather than pretend they can say shit about gas prices, for example. No, Biden just asks nicely from the WH. As if the shareholders intentionally leveraging their power to hold expansion/production down after being burned by a lack of a returns in the energy sector over the last decade care what Biden asks. I could go on a rant about housing, healthcare, taxes, students, or any of the number of topics that somehow magically go unaddressed, but get leveraged to motivate voters each cycle, but the overall point was made. The Democrats are a right-wing party of corporate interests before human interests, and we need to be honest about that.
So if you want to perpetuate it by voting for them because you believe in the Democratic party. Then by all means, but you only continue the exact environment we have been in when you do.

[archibaldcrane]

That requires Manchin and Sinema; the whole point is that progress can only go at the pace of the most conservative member of the Democratic coalition.

Then you decide well Machin has to go, congrats we don't even have a 50-50 with VP tiebreaker to get the few things we can through.

Manchin and Sinema should do it, yes

[Kanriel]

One thing I'd love to throw in this discourse is Hillary lost in mostly Rust Belt states. The idea that the hardcore Bernie bros refused Hillary and that gave us Trump is a good bit less likely when you consider the super close states were PA, Wisconsin and Michigan. Those aren't states with super left strongholds that would have dismissed Hillary. The states most likely to have those Bernie bros that wouldn't vote Hillary are the ones that Hillary handily won (CA being the top example there). Hillary lost by not reaching those voters. Didn't she not even appear in Wisconsin at all in the final few months? Maybe Michigan too?

IMO, the Dems are so far removed from one of the old classics of their voter base (poor blue collar workers) that it's killing them. These people are being turned by Republicans as time goes on, when the Dems should be singing Union praises and working on restoring those things in those states.

[archibaldcrane]

Madison is a super left stronghold tho

[Meresgi]

One thing I'd love to throw in this discourse is Hillary lost in mostly Rust Belt states. The idea that the hardcore Bernie bros refused Hillary and that gave us Trump is a good bit less likely when you consider the super close states were PA, Wisconsin and Michigan. Those aren't states with super left strongholds that would have dismissed Hillary. The states most likely to have those Bernie bros that wouldn't vote Hillary are the ones that Hillary handily won (CA being the top example there). Hillary lost by not reaching those voters. Didn't she not even appear in Wisconsin at all in the final few months? Maybe Michigan too?

IMO, the Dems are so far removed from one of the old classics of their voter base (poor blue collar workers) that it's killing them. These people are being turned by Republicans as time goes on, when the Dems should be singing Union praises and working on restoring those things in those states.

If Dems cant progress on and win uneducated voters of any racial background then they're fucked as a party. Still have this mindset of "Well the hispanics will vote for us because look at how the GoP treats Mexican immigrants!"

That requires Manchin and Sinema; the whole point is that progress can only go at the pace of the most conservative member of the Democratic coalition.

Again...REMOVE HIM FROM HIS COMMITEE POSITION and also threaten to have the IRS look more into his family's finances, and why did we put Sinema's name on a fucking bill other then "She's queer! That will get us some of them queer voters!"

Ideally, yes, you shouldn't have to choose the lesser of two evils, and I can understand the desire to say "I am not supporting this shitty nominee" but failing to vote for the lesser is essentially tacitly endorsing the greater.

"Vote for the lesser of two evils" has been the slogan for a long time now, as we constantly have our main pick from the primary be someone who inspires ZERO fucking faith and hope in the democratic base beyond "left" upper class suburb folks, who are actually mostly either center or even slightly right of center. But the window has been shifted so much that "right wing" literally means you're ready to blow up the country while murdering anyone who isn't white while sucking off Trump and "left" is anything else.

[Andalusian girls]

anything else sounds better tbh

[Drai]

Yeah, the incrementalism of the Democratic party is utter horseshit. Touting incrementalism in this case is just an intellectually dishonest cop-out to the political climate for the past couple decades.
When the turkey burns in the oven on Thanksgiving you cant just slowly unburn it. You throw it away and make a better turkey. To suggest sticking with an inedible turkey because you cant imagine another viable alternative then you never will have an edible turkey on your table.

Fundamental and sweeping changes are required instead of sticking more fingers in the dike-ocratic party while pretending it will save our democracy because guess what, the only meaningful incrementalism is coming from the right as they ratchet the dems to the right and they don't return left once a Biden comes into office. So when the same shit is on the ballot time and again, nothing really changes, and people openly and rightfully mock the democrats for not having an actual agenda. Then that is because your purported solution is the problem. Incrementalism by this point would make the country metaphorically no better than its many zombie companies so rolling over their debt with an inability to pay it off. Much like tackling the matter of global climate change. The time to actually do that incrementally has passed, and now it will not be realized without more drastic attention.



So no progress then? Lol.

When you keep throwing around "progress" like this you either are sticking your head in the sand or simply want to beat the word so badly with the platitudinal ugly stick that it will be beyond recognition of what actual progress is. You shouldn't in good conscience keep supporting a party that leaves its voters holding the bag like some battered wife.

If the democrats had every seat in the house and senate tomorrow then they still wouldn't get the job done. They aren't interested in tackling a financial sector that builds a bigger house of cards with their culture of disassociating risk with consequence. They will never nationalize the oil industry to institute a managed decline rather than pretend they can say shit about gas prices, for example. No, Biden just asks nicely from the WH. As if the shareholders intentionally leveraging their power to hold expansion/production down after being burned by a lack of a returns in the energy sector over the last decade care what Biden asks. I could go on a rant about housing, healthcare, taxes, students, or any of the number of topics that somehow magically go unaddressed, but get leveraged to motivate voters each cycle, but the overall point was made. The Democrats are a right-wing party of corporate interests before human interests, and we need to be honest about that.
So if you want to perpetuate it by voting for them because you believe in the Democratic party. Then by all means, but you only continue the exact environment we have been in when you do.

I mean, I don't live in the states, but based on what my friends and others on this forum seem to prefer is that America NOT be completely destroyed as a means to fix the system, I won't even begin to list all the bad things that would happen, not just in North America, but around the entire world if that were to happen.