SCOTUS Thread (News and Discussion) III: Abandoning 90 Years of Precedent

[Spicyryan]

We need to keep pushing the needle the other way with actual progressives, GoP have no issue running full steam the other direction when they're in power yet Dems just can't muster the energy....probably because they're also paid off by the same groups.

Part of the reason that I despise the Dems is because they actually keep people from moving left. They are a bulwark against leftist ideas, discussion, or actively even fight against any such candidate. Democrats can't even identify a leftist.

[Kaslo]

We need to keep pushing the needle the other way with actual progressives, GoP have no issue running full steam the other direction when they're in power yet Dems just can't muster the energy....probably because they're also paid off by the same groups.

But the point is, Dems can't push the needle if they don't win. Appealing to NYC won't win you elections in Missouri/Texas/Florida.

[Spicyryan]

But the point is, Dems can't push the needle if they don't win. Appealing to NYC won't win you elections in Missouri/Texas/Florida.

They don't push the needle when they do win though. Look at how much they have actually changed from Trump's time and it is not impressive to say the least.

This article from Time in late January feels ancient now. It would certainly be less favorable today amid inflation and yet more failure. Failure which can not just be neatly explained away as "GOP and Manchin/Sinema don't play ball with us."

[Kaslo]

They don't push the needle when they do win though. Look at how much they have actually changed from Trump's time and it is not impressive to say the least.

This article from Time in late January feels ancient now. It would certainly be less favorable today amid inflation and yet more failure. Failure which can not just be neatly explained away as "GOP and Manchin/Sinema don't play ball with us."

They didn't win in 2020, they broke even.

Republicans don't have to push their needle when they win, or at least not on matters that require a super majority. It's either taxes or justices that they have passed stuff on (simple majority for one, and unpopular to block on the other). Everything else all they have to do is block block block.

Pushing the progressive needle needs a super majority.

[Spicyryan]

They didn't win in 2020, they broke even.

Came up short against an orange guy who committed treason and turned his back on COVID killing Americans. This Shaq-attack of a party can't make a layup for two elections now. Maybe if the rumor mill pans out and they have Hillary run again then they can.

[kuronosan]

It's totally their fault and not the lack of unity with wishy washy constituents.

I do wish they would fight more, but why fucking fight for people who don't appreciate at least incremental progress?

[thetruepandagod]

why not move canada tho

[Mrbeansman]

Incremental is and will also be the only way forward without government reforms that are now impossible because the founding fathers never gave the people a direct way to put amendments to a vote.

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[NynJa]

why not move canada tho

We dont want him up here

[Spicyryan]

It's totally their fault and not the lack of unity with wishy washy constituents.

I do wish they would fight more, but why fucking fight for people who don't appreciate at least incremental progress?

Yeah, fuck those people!

Seriously though, the reluctance and inability of several of you to evaluate the flaws of incrimentalism in our political system is a huge problem. Holding it up as a guiding virtue of the political process is misguided. As if there is the time or the effort to tip toe through the process while being unable to touch any big issue like healthcare or climate change. If you want to watch gridlock and the resulting disenfranchisement and disengagement of the voters. While nothing significant gets done and you come distant third after the more privileged or the interest groups. Then sure incrementalism sounds great. You would pretend that you can reform the system while keeping it in tact. Those who stand to gain don't stop working to reverse gains.

Here, it's like in Disney 's Hercules where the big bad titans get imprisoned. Only to be freed again. Only to be imprisoned again while keeping the cycle in tact for a repeat. Or just how the gross inequality of the Guilded Age was suppressed only to steadily make a comeback as inequality rises. Behold the glory of incrementalism and reform.

As a base concept it makes sense, sure. When you apply it to real world situations and context. It tends to fall apart in the manner of which you are applying it. It's a fact of compromise and the role that plays (the one everyone is preoccupied with it seems), but not a fact of marked change. It's an overemphasis on steps taken in a journey instead of finishing one.
It's not like slowly saving up enough for a house or for retirement, where incrementalism works. It just doesn't work that way for major structural impediments as they can't be solved with half-measures and a lack of continual direction and consistent pressure. No, in reality incrementalism is not that consistent pressure.

[Kaslo]

Yeah, fuck those people!

Seriously though, the reluctance and inability of several of you to evaluate the flaws of incrimentalism in our political system is a huge problem. Holding it up as a guiding virtue of the political process is misguided. As if there is the time or the effort to tip toe through the process while being unable to touch any big issue like healthcare or climate change. If you want to watch gridlock and the resulting disenfranchisement and disengagement of the voters. While nothing significant gets done and you come distant third after the more privileged or the interest groups. Then sure incrementalism sounds great. You would pretend that you can reform the system while keeping it in tact. Those who stand to gain don't stop working to reverse gains.

Here, it's like in Disney 's Hercules where the big bad titans get imprisoned. Only to be freed again. Only to be imprisoned again while keeping the cycle in tact for a repeat. Or just how the gross inequality of the Guilded Age was suppressed only to steadily make a comeback as inequality rises. Behold the glory of incrementalism and reform.

As a base concept it makes sense, sure. When you apply it to real world situations and context. It tends to fall apart in the manner of which you are applying it. It's a fact of compromise and the role that plays (the one everyone is preoccupied with it seems), but not a fact of marked change. It's an overemphasis on steps taken in a journey instead of finishing one.
It's not like slowly saving up enough for a house or for retirement, where incrementalism works. It just doesn't work that way for major structural impediments as they can't be solved with half-measures and a lack of continual direction and consistent pressure.

Listen, I would always rather take 1 step forward than 10 steps back.

[Melena]

Yeah, fuck those people!

Seriously though, the reluctance and inability of several of you to evaluate the flaws of incrimentalism in our political system is a huge problem. Holding it up as a guiding virtue of the political process is misguided. As if there is the time or the effort to tip toe through the process while being unable to touch any big issue like healthcare or climate change. If you want to watch gridlock and the resulting disenfranchisement and disengagement of the voters. While nothing significant gets done and you come distant third after the more privileged or the interest groups. Then sure incrementalism sounds great. You would pretend that you can reform the system while keeping it in tact. Those who stand to gain don't stop working to reverse gains.

Here, it's like in Disney 's Hercules where the big bad titans get imprisoned. Only to be freed again. Only to be imprisoned again while keeping the cycle in tact for a repeat. Or just how the gross inequality of the Guilded Age was suppressed only to steadily make a comeback as inequality rises. Behold the glory of incrementalism and reform.

As a base concept it makes sense, sure. When you apply it to real world situations and context. It tends to fall apart in the manner of which you are applying it. It's a fact of compromise and the role that plays (the one everyone is preoccupied with it seems), but not a fact of marked change. It's an overemphasis on steps taken in a journey instead of finishing one.
It's not like slowly saving up enough for a house or for retirement, where incrementalism works. It just doesn't work that way for major structural impediments as they can't be solved with half-measures and a lack of continual direction and consistent pressure. No, in reality incrementalism is not that consistent pressure.

Complains about the flaws of incrementalism, ignores the fact that's how Republicans got us into this state by doing incrementalism over the last 40+ years.

[Spicyryan]

Listen, I would always rather take 1 step forward then 10 steps back.

Give and take exists, and I stated as much, but incrementalism isn't 1 back 10 forward.

Complains about the flaws of incrementalism, ignores the fact that's how Republicans got us into this state by doing incrementalism over the last 40+ years.

I did essentially talk about coming a distant third or how it doesn't work both ways. Interest groups keep pressure on. Voters and average people don't.

[thetruepandagod]

Yeah, fuck those people!

Seriously though, the reluctance and inability of several of you to evaluate the flaws of incrimentalism in our political system is a huge problem. Holding it up as a guiding virtue of the political process is misguided. As if there is the time or the effort to tip toe through the process while being unable to touch any big issue like healthcare or climate change. If you want to watch gridlock and the resulting disenfranchisement and disengagement of the voters. While nothing significant gets done and you come distant third after the more privileged or the interest groups. Then sure incrementalism sounds great. You would pretend that you can reform the system while keeping it in tact. Those who stand to gain don't stop working to reverse gains.

Here, it's like in Disney 's Hercules where the big bad titans get imprisoned. Only to be freed again. Only to be imprisoned again while keeping the cycle in tact for a repeat. Or just how the gross inequality of the Guilded Age was suppressed only to steadily make a comeback as inequality rises. Behold the glory of incrementalism and reform.

As a base concept it makes sense, sure. When you apply it to real world situations and context. It tends to fall apart in the manner of which you are applying it. It's a fact of compromise and the role that plays (the one everyone is preoccupied with it seems), but not a fact of marked change. It's an overemphasis on steps taken in a journey instead of finishing one.
It's not like slowly saving up enough for a house or for retirement, where incrementalism works. It just doesn't work that way for major structural impediments as they can't be solved with half-measures and a lack of continual direction and consistent pressure. No, in reality incrementalism is not that consistent pressure.

he's referencing hercules. i am being swayed

[Roranora]

Listen, I would always rather take 1 step forward then 10 steps back.

then/than throwing me for a loop here

[Kaslo]

then/than throwing me for a loop here

Thank you for catching my typo.

[Roranora]

i was thinking, "hey, we did that though"

[Mrbeansman]

Yeah, fuck those people!

Seriously though, the reluctance and inability of several of you to evaluate the flaws of incrimentalism in our political system is a huge problem. Holding it up as a guiding virtue of the political process is misguided. As if there is the time or the effort to tip toe through the process while being unable to touch any big issue like healthcare or climate change. If you want to watch gridlock and the resulting disenfranchisement and disengagement of the voters. While nothing significant gets done and you come distant third after the more privileged or the interest groups. Then sure incrementalism sounds great. You would pretend that you can reform the system while keeping it in tact. Those who stand to gain don't stop working to reverse gains.

Here, it's like in Disney 's Hercules where the big bad titans get imprisoned. Only to be freed again. Only to be imprisoned again while keeping the cycle in tact for a repeat. Or just how the gross inequality of the Guilded Age was suppressed only to steadily make a comeback as inequality rises. Behold the glory of incrementalism and reform.

As a base concept it makes sense, sure. When you apply it to real world situations and context. It tends to fall apart in the manner of which you are applying it. It's a fact of compromise and the role that plays (the one everyone is preoccupied with it seems), but not a fact of marked change. It's an overemphasis on steps taken in a journey instead of finishing one.
It's not like slowly saving up enough for a house or for retirement, where incrementalism works. It just doesn't work that way for major structural impediments as they can't be solved with half-measures and a lack of continual direction and consistent pressure. No, in reality incrementalism is not that consistent pressure.

Yeah I'm sure all those people getting affordable health insurance are mad salty.

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[Day]

Yeah all those people

[Spicyryan]

Yeah I'm sure all those people getting affordable health insurance are mad salty.

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Employer health insurance premiums for families have risen 47% in 10 years. Last year my wife looked at the cost or adding me to her health insurance. It was around an extra 1k a month essentially. We laughed and said no.

Meanwhile, cost of living is up, purchasing power is down. Where is this affordable healthcare??

The ACA is an overall failure unless the bar is so low that covering pre-existing conditions, a failure to fully expand Medicaid, a failure to control costs, a failure to introduce a public option, a failure to enforce a mandate, a failure to implement subsidy coverage without a massive gap, a failure to address the underlying issues of the medical system, etc.

What a success of incrementalism. Seeing as nothing has gotten done on it since then, and in fact only moved backwards. You'd think with a pandemic killing over 1 million Americans that Biden could at least try to work on any of the many holes in it, but once again status quo Joe.

Would I rather have the ACA than not? I mean that's like asking if I rather eat shit or starve. It's more like the illusion of choice.