Putin in Russia (II): Spicy Island Liberation Front

[Spicyryan]

Lol

Putin has spent 20 years robbing Russia blind. "Acting in their best interest" is I suppose true in that he's attempting to loot the resources of other nations after a generation squandering those of his own country.

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There really isn't as dramatic a difference between the corruption of Russian officials and US ones as we like to imagine. We have our own oligarchs/barons and lobbyists here too. They also exert influence over law and the political establishment. They are also corrupt and self-enriching. Ours is just totally cooler and sophisticated though. Russia is that crude wasteland of bumpkins that wear funny hats, drink, and speak some weird tongue.

That aside, just as with Iraq or Afghanistan here, there too are imperialists in Russia whom support the war and Putin. Plenty of Russians that are invested in one way or another. There are benefits to it, and they get that. Which should be easy to understand after we saw a third of the US wouldn't abandon Trump, and even more voted to re-elect him. There are plenty of patriotic Russians who hate the corruption and nepotism in their country, but there are plenty still who hate it because it makes their country less effective in subjugating opponents like Ukraine or defending against NATO.
Such a distaste for corruption is not a problem we are foreign to either. It tends to be buried or minimalized better due to the superior organization of our private industry. Especially when compared to one only 30 years old founded in the dissolution of a country.
Case in point, people really want to defend someone like Elon Musk keeping Space X afloat via a direct contact at the Pentagon working behind the scenes. To float hundreds of millions at a company which had no business receiving it, and wouldn't have survived without it as it ate up all his Paypal monies. For it is just good business to become an unofficial arm of the government as a company that can't stay afloat on it own, and be showered with hundreds of millions in tax payer dollars until becoming a viable company and marvel of the American Dream. Proof that the market works and if you try hard enough to get into the right circles then you too can enrich yourself "the right way". Russian oligarchs ain't shit in that case.

Ultimately, it is easier to point at Russia as a black kettle and let the propaganda roll. Alexei Navalny is a decent example off the top of my head. The western media focusing on his poisoning and jailing as part of their never-ending hysteria towards Putin. Meanwhile, that poor Alexei is just another imperialist who sees nothing wrong with the empire and wishes to take power instead. No condemnation of the war in Ukraine comes from him or his people because they would never admit to any flaw in the empire they wish to take. Instead he likes to blame minorities within Russia. In fact, anyone resisting the Kremlin upsets these Russian liberals because they ultimately aren't looking to lead Russia in a radically different direction.

[Zealot]

I have 0% surprise that someone who expresses nothing but loathing for the Democratic party would also totally see Putin's side of things.

[NynJa]

There really isn't as dramatic a difference between the corruption of Russian officials and US ones as we like to imagine.

lol
I've been banned for supposed "trolling" over much less than this. Granted, it was by Bane whos a piece of shit, so that may not mean much.

[thetruepandagod]

i liked that time the clintons poisoned all those journalists with uranium

[Forte]

Some retarded bullshit

There was a point at which you should have stopped, and yet, you continued. Please consider shutting the fuck up for all of our sakes.

[Rhyis.]

to be fair to putin, he hasn't killed anywhere close to the number of ukrainians stalin did. fucking rookie numbers

[kuronosan]

The distance between the way Russia games its corruption and others do would get you to Mars.

It's dangerous to simplify any concept by principle and is exactly why Trumpism and propaganda in general is so effective.

"Yes, I murder people. But is America really any different?"

Yes. Worlds different.

[Spicyryan]

I have 0% surprise that someone who expresses nothing but loathing for the Democratic party would also totally see Putin's side of things.

Russia is just a different place. Doesn't mean I am thrilled about Putin or the people of Russia, but I can accept things operate differently there. I am also not thrilled by Americans, but trying to see it through other lenses is pretty important to forming a viewpoint.

There was a point at which you should have stopped, and yet, you continued. Please consider shutting the fuck up for all of our sakes.

Get a load of Mr. Angry Eyes.

The distance between the way Russia games its corruption and others do would get you to Mars.

It's dangerous to simplify any concept by principle and is exactly why Trumpism and propaganda in general is so effective.

"Yes, I murder people. But is America really any different?"

Yes. Worlds different.

It really depends how that corruption is measured. Ours is a lot less in your face, but absolutely prevalent. It's not a simplification to compare the similar behaviors of these corrupt classes in both countries. If the American government got credit for the murders of it's military or of the CIA then it wouldn't be "worlds different". It's not as if the crimes of the barons go unpunished here too with even basic shit like opioids. There's just a lot more facade on one side of this argument than the other.
I happen to see the US as a malevolent force, an "evil empire" to borrow a label. Other choose not to see it that way and think it is just swell. Doesn't mean Russia is great either, its not.

[kuronosan]

Believe me, I have rather intimate knowledge of how Russia operates.

Feudal Japan was different from current Japan. Doesn't make their practices okay.

[Xno Kappa]

There really isn't as dramatic a difference between the corruption of Russian officials and US ones as we like to imagine.

[Spicyryan]

Believe me, I have rather intimate knowledge of how Russia operates.

Feudal Japan was different from current Japan. Doesn't make their practices okay.

Well, go on..?

I reduced the concept to a Trumpian analog at a point within the argument to assert that the Wests hysteria toward Putin is hypocrisy. Not because it is 1:1. In a matter where no one can be expected to understand or accept the points of view being espoused it becomes a necessity.

[kuronosan]

Sorry, how is it hypocrisy? I suppose if you look at a bacteria smear with a coke bottle you'll see bacteria but Staph is very different from Bacilli and only a microscope will show you that same color doesn't mean same germ.

[Spicyryan]

Sorry, how is it hypocrisy? I suppose if you look at a bacteria smear with a coke bottle you'll see bacteria but Staph is very different from Bacilli and only a microscope will show you that same color doesn't mean same germ.

What a complex analogy to basically say there are different shades of grey.
Except it's not grey because the US isn't some benevolent force. To maintain ones position and reap the advantages of being the dominant head of the world order you have to be more assertive and ruthless. I don't think the US can point at the conduct of Russia and really claim to be more virtuous.
They just sell the idea and people buy into it because they don't know any better or simply only care if their nation advances regardless of what that entails. It makes for some good propaganda either way.

[Spicyryan]

Fake news: https://twitter.com/rajavartijat/sta...17882655420416

On topic though, I continue to not have any earthly idea as to how this is all going to end. I don't see Russia backing down without getting SOMETHING out of this, and I don't see Ukraine agreeing to any loss of their land. My fear is this eventually escalates to the use of tactical nukes, at which point we enter the complete unknown.

Follow up.

Still not sure if that tweet I shared you responded to this with is fake news or not. However, Reuters is reporting that Finish officials state the border is increasingly chaotic as Russians head for it.

https://twitter.com/ukraine_map/stat...WlWCXXpCg&s=19

However, this is the start of political unrest that was part of what prevented mobilization in the first place.

[kuronosan]

What a complex analogy to basically say there are different shades of grey.
Except it's not grey because the US isn't some benevolent force. To maintain ones position and reap the advantages of being the dominant head of the world order you have to be more assertive and ruthless. I don't think the US can point at the conduct of Russia and really claim to be more virtuous.
They just sell the idea and people buy into it because they don't know any better or simply only care if their nation advances regardless of what that entails. It makes for some good propaganda either way.

If your thinking is concrete then all you'll see is rock.

[Salodin]

There really isn't as dramatic a difference between the corruption of Russian officials and US ones as we like to imagine.

Y'all know you don't actually have to engage with this right lmao

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[Mrbeansman]

Dude has gone full stereotype of the America hating liberal that the right is always on about.

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[Spicyryan]

If your thinking is concrete then all you'll see is rock.

Is even a little culpability too much to ask for?

[kuronosan]

Y'all know you don't actually have to engage with this right lmao

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I'm bored and in between patients

[Yabby]

Ryan is the poster child of horseshoe theory.