Putin in Russia (II): Spicy Island Liberation Front

[Andalusian girls]

The truth is that American hegemony is a cancer to the planet. We can’t fault Russia for invading Ukraine when their very survival is at stake. The people of Luhansk, Donetsk, etc. have made their positions clear through open and honest democracy.

Unless you want another North Korea on your hands, the U.S. would be smart to back off lending anymore military aid to Ukraine.

QUIEN SABIA QUE ERA HORA DE LA PAYASO

[Xno Kappa]

[Spicyryan]

Then just stfu nobody wants to hear Putins rubbish attempted justification of war crimes and your shitty whataboutism just makes you sound like an apologist.

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You don't get to tell me to stfu until you can actually hold even the most remotely informed conversation on the subject. Otherwise, then by all means go ahead and say such. However, I don't care if you are incredibly angsty about Putin. Put up or shut up.

[Andalusian girls]

What I meant about the world not revolving around the U.S is that the tensions between Europe and Russia does not stem from USA and NATO.

Not all the world’s conflicts boil down to what the U.S has done or is doing. Many (like the middle east) do, but not Russia. Russia (and you) like blaming it on the U.S but the issue is much deeper than that. Russia’s just using it as a convenient reason.

you're right, obviously, Russia and its relations with its European neighbors predate even the existence of the United States, and Ukrainian/Polish/Finnish anxieties about geopolitical predation today aren't all that different from what their 17th century counterparts felt, but i will say not even the world's conflicts in the Middle East boils down solely to the United States.

to use Iraq as a case study: we unilaterally destabilized the country by destroying the Saddam dictatorship, but the bulk of the violence that broke out was Iraqi-on-Iraqi as the Shia majority, long-suffering under the sadism of the Sunni Baathist regime, sought revenge. this produced a savage Sunni backlash, Iranian intervention, the flood of foreign Jihadists rallying to Zarqawi's black banners, Moqtada al-Sadr's bids for power, ISIS, etc etc.

the above absolves us of no blame. the Invasion of Iraq was a preemptive war of aggression based on falsehoods and paralytic American incompetence combined with overwhelming hubris during the initial occupation wrought perhaps even greater destruction, but it does contextualize it. the United States did not create Saddam Hussein in a laboratory, it did not delineate the ethnic fault-lines in the British colonial construction that is modern Iraq, it did not loosely group these people together in the first place under Ottoman administrative units, it did not pull the trigger for hundreds of thousands of Iraqis who decided to try to kill other Iraqis for one reason or another. international affairs are dense, and Westerners often seek reductionist explanations to align with their viewpoints (and because it's hard to learn exogenous names). but to do so robs foreign actors of agency while distorting reality to a degree that makes it almost unrecognizable.

[Xno Kappa]

They should’ve never burnt down that library imo

[Andalusian girls]

the Mongolian idea of human rights was dividing chopped off arms and legs by side

[kuronosan]

Can't we just go back to stabbing people like the good ol days

[Gredival]

You're Eurocentric because you acknowledge the fundamental injustices of the system but still recognize that the liberal international order is objectively better than the alternative.

If you could disentangle yourself from the western military industrial complex brainwashing you would see that true justice is supporting Russia and China in their revisionist agendas to usurp the system and implement a superior global standard of human rights including organ farming religious and ethnic minorities, intentional targeting of civilians, and making political opponents disappear through accidentally jumping out hospital windows.

[NynJa]

You don't get to tell me to stfu until you can actually hold even the most remotely informed conversation on the subject. Otherwise, then by all means go ahead and say such. However, I don't care if you are incredibly angsty about Putin. Put up or shut up.

stfu

[NynJa]

NynJa needs more wrestling gif responses though since those are amusing.

[Xno Kappa]

I miss Covid era wrestling. AEW nailed that shit, it felt mad intimate and fun.

[kuronosan]

Spicy reminds me of the pony tail dude from Good Will Hunting.

[Xno Kappa]

It’s not your fault Spicy.

It’s not your fault…

[Demosthenes]

Spicy reminds me of the pony tail dude from Good Will Hunting.

LMAO

[Yabby]

[Ayn]

[Andalusian girls]

You're Eurocentric because you acknowledge the fundamental injustices of the system but still recognize that the liberal international order is objectively better than the alternative.

If you could disentangle yourself from the western military industrial complex brainwashing you would see that true justice is supporting Russia and China in their revisionist agendas to usurp the system and implement a superior global standard of human rights including organ farming religious and ethnic minorities, intentional targeting of civilians, and making political opponents disappear through accidentally jumping out hospital windows.

China is maybe the greatest winner in this whole imbroglio. Russia is aggressive and violent, but ultimately is an underdeveloped petro-state in geopolitical decline with a GDP less than Canada's. it has little economic might, no pathway of assuming even regional leadership, and is not part of any multipolar future. it is willing to kill while others are not (though not very effectively), and has disproportionate sway with a Security Council veto and a lot of nukes, but its eclipse came long ago. alternately China has surpassed the United States in PPP GDP, is the world's leading exporter, and is perfectly situated for the Asia Strikes Back century.

thankfully they're a bit cunty so all their neighbors hate them and their socio-political structures are not so good, but it is a little funny and myopic the West is going sickos yes haha yes meme when Russia's $66 billion military grinds down in Ukraine while China's $293 billion military hums along in the background.

[thetruepandagod]

you're right, obviously, Russia and its relations with its European neighbors predate even the existence of the United States, and Ukrainian/Polish/Finnish anxieties about geopolitical predation today aren't all that different from what their 17th century counterparts felt, but i will say not even the world's conflicts in the Middle East boils down solely to the United States.

to use Iraq as a case study: we unilaterally destabilized the country by destroying the Saddam dictatorship, but the bulk of the violence that broke out was Iraqi-on-Iraqi as the Shia majority, long-suffering under the sadism of the Sunni Baathist regime, sought revenge. this produced a savage Sunni backlash, Iranian intervention, the flood of foreign Jihadists rallying to Zarqawi's black banners, Moqtada al-Sadr's bids for power, ISIS, etc etc.

the above absolves us of no blame. the Invasion of Iraq was a preemptive war of aggression based on falsehoods and paralytic American incompetence combined with overwhelming hubris during the initial occupation wrought perhaps even greater destruction, but it does contextualize it. the United States did not create Saddam Hussein in a laboratory, it did not delineate the ethnic fault-lines in the British colonial construction that is modern Iraq, it did not loosely group these people together in the first place under Ottoman administrative units, it did not pull the trigger for hundreds of thousands of Iraqis who decided to try to kill other Iraqis for one reason or another. international affairs are dense, and Westerners often seek reductionist explanations to align with their viewpoints (and because it's hard to learn exogenous names). but to do so robs foreign actors of agency while distorting reality to a degree that makes it almost unrecognizable.

my boys wicked smaht

[Spicyryan]

<insightful things being said for once in the last X number of pages>

It may absolutely be the tendency of people—especially Westerners and Eurocentrics—to engage in reductionist rhetoric; in this case Iraq. However it would stand to reason that despite being unable to blame the Ottomans or more importantly the fucking Brits over ancient ideological and overall blood feuds. That they are compounded by despicable hubris and utter disregard of them. Then further disregarded in what is most often the violent pursuit of Western interests in said regions.
So that when outstanding tensions explode into violence, as could clearly be expected by apparently anyone who cared to understand; despite the oft shock and dismay Western leadership. That—while they are not directly to blame for the issue, they certainly not only got involved but were the reason it exploded to such proportion, and could therefore receive the lion share of blame.

To which I would further extend that to Ukraine, but no one cares about that.

[Mrbeansman]

Amazing your argument is basically "hey the west why you gotta make me hit you".

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