Spicy's plan for utopia

[Zealot]

In 500 years I will rule the planet in my immortal robot body and humans will mostly exist to write and perform in one-act plays about how great I am.

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[Zealot]

Spoilers.

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[Gredival]

You still present a zero-sum outcome game (these people die so these people live), your insistence upon such being almost a parody of your Kings-era obsession at this point. Between the two of you, Spicy presents the more favorable ultimate goal of a free and happy world, his issue is he shares your impression of real human lives as abstractions that can be broken down into numbers and if millions are better off for longer later, it justifies millions suffering and dying in the short term.

Given society's current shape, the goal should be using the neo-liberal order and the tremendous excess of wealth and material resources it has generated to end suffering and conflict by cutting off the lack which is usually at their center. The current world order does a fairly good job at maintaining peace on a global scale, but has decided that horrendously bloody regional conflicts and the occasional genocide are a reasonable price to pay. Also for all of the effort put in to simply maintain what we have, societal infrastructure worldwide has deteriorated to the point that fascism and dictatorships are becoming more commonplace, and a world governance structure beholden to economies which rely on China, India, and Saudi Arabia are geared specifically toward allowing it to happen in the name of greater economic stability. U.S. hegemony did little or nothing to stop China from making financial inroads across the Middle East and Africa which will shake up the entire basis of the global economy in the next 10-20 years, and our systems in place are designed to simply roll with it since some people will be getting wealthier and no one will be going to war.

The calculus of your system may save the most lives but the question of if they will ultimately be worth living continues to get murkier.

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Where did I ever say reforms are impossible or undesirable? Part of the reason why institutions are good is that they are, empirically, the best avenue for progress.

I think the comparison of European systems to the American one reveals there is a lot of progress possible under capitalism.

I also do think there are inherent issues with capitalism in the terminal stages. Like I previously explained, solving those issues likely relies on our ability to rely on automation to extract value out of robot labor and using regulation to ensure that the value is redistributed instead.

But none of that justifies the short sighted blind committal to complete system tear down.

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[Spicyryan]

Can reform capitalism to be less capitalist all you want, but you can't end systematic exploitation. To whatever degree it can get away with. Without ending capitalism, as there is no permanent transition without cessation.

[thetruepandagod]

it's all or nothing, except your all is nothing but failure and suffering lel

[Spicyryan]

it's all or nothing, except your all is nothing but failure and suffering lel

I'll reduce it down to Panda levels. US makes enough food to feed itself and much of the world, but millions go hungry cuz no profit cuz capitalism.

[thetruepandagod]

ill be god damned if i eat brown bananas in some sort of idealized hellscape of yours

[Spicyryan]

ill be god damned if i eat brown bananas in some sort of idealized hellscape of yours

But they make the best banana bread. You love big brown bananas, and you don't even know it.

[Zealot]

No one ever actually makes banana bread. Those bananas are going to sit in the freezer until they move.

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[kuronosan]

ill be god damned if i eat brown bananas in some sort of idealized hellscape of yours

Banana bread yo

[archibaldcrane]

No one ever actually makes banana bread. Those bananas are going to sit in the freezer until they move.

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I make banana bread probably 15 times a year

[Jaybar]

I make banana bread probably 15 times a year

Eat ur bananas on time you goof.

[Spicyryan]

No one ever actually makes banana bread. Those bananas are going to sit in the freezer until they move.

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First off, I do. Top tier, easiest baked recipe ever.

Secondly, you put bananas in the freezer...?

[Zealot]

Ok one, yes, if you want to make banana bread you can freeze your bananas until you're ready to use them. Two, you can use frozen bananas to make banana ice cream.

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[thetruepandagod]

never made banana bread and never will.

i only really eat green bananas and sometimes yellow, but even a hint of brown gets em sent to the trash

[archibaldcrane]

Eat ur bananas on time you goof.

I don't buy bananas for myself

i only really eat green bananas and sometimes yellow, but even a hint of brown gets em sent to the trash

This is increasingly my children's tastes, so I get leftovers, and they like the bread.

[Spicyryan]

Ok one, yes, if you want to make banana bread you can freeze your bananas until you're ready to use them. Two, you can use frozen bananas to make banana ice cream.

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My freezer is full of 50-70% off meat and bread, and i dont even want to eat meat. There is no room for bananas. They can sit on the counter.

There are also some Bavarian Bretzels in there taking up room. I like to have Bretzel n booze nights.

never made banana bread and never will.

i only really eat green bananas and sometimes yellow, but even a hint of brown gets em sent to the trash

So you are just a freak. No wonder this thread exists.

[kuronosan]

In an ideal would everyone would like bananas.

[Salodin]

Banana bread is fucking disgusting and up there on the tier list of nasty shit along with soupy lasagna

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[kuronosan]

You take that back, heathen.