HorizonXI – Era+ 75 Cap FFXI Server Launching December 17th, 2022

[Spicyryan]

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[Celeras]

Guys I'm loving Horizon so far. Playing with my little brother who never experience XI past level 33, he's leveling fishing and cooking, making gil, self sufficient and having fun. He chose SMN as his main and its awesome seeing him enjoy it so much. I have no regretted my choice to join Horizon and play it and I'm thankful for the Devs for bringing to me and letting me share my favorite childhood game with my brother who never got a chance too. You guys are awesome and you don't deserve all the shit some people give you.

But good lord I'm going to really complain for a second here out of love and hope for this project, just absolutely blow off some steam for a second just because but don't wanna spew it on the discord lol and end up getting banned for venting a little /too/ hard. Just learned today they nerfed the shit out of Suppanomimi. Changed it to AGI+2, Eva/Dagger/Katana+5, removed Dual Wield entirely on it and it kinda just became the straw that broke the camels back. Massacred it man, who asked for this change? Who wanted the Iconic Suppa earing just fucking gone? It just makes no sense. Like even with the logic of "Well suppa was the clear choice and we wanted the other earrings to be an option", okay, try un-shitting the other options instead of objectively buttfucking the only good one into a garbage-tier macro piece that barely replaces existing Eva+ earrings.

Like I'm sitting here looking at what I have to look forward too at Endgame on THF. No DPS changes so I'm still a TH Bot in the off-party, no Collab/Accomplice so I cant effectively control enmity, Utsu Recast increased by 15% so my solo/duo capabilities are nerfed. No native Dual wield so im still glued to /NIN, full nerfs included. Objectively, my job is worse. My entire worth to the party is still purely reliant on a Passive trait that I have no control or impact over, a skilless TH bot that can literally be filled by an AFK person. For some jobs they got a lot of love and for others it feels like all we got to look forward too is Era-.

I signed up for this server honestly hoping I was dealing with people who were around in Era-Accurate XI and knew and loved the game and wanted to improve on the errors and shortcomings of the Era experience, and a lot of the changes and balance adjustments just feel a little... vindictive ya know? "My WHM never got invited to merit parties cause RDM was too good so RIP RDM lol" or "I got mocked for having Bushin Earring and not Suppa so WHOS LAUGHING NOW?". Like I'm not accusing anyone of anything its just hard to shake the feeling lol.

Not to mention that are some clear oversights in certain nerfs. Utsu Ichi being 45 second recast has made BCNM30/40's/60's so much more needlessly difficult for any melee job that isn't BST, so either you intentionally screwed every melee job or just didn't consider the balance implications of giving every class a permanent 50% Slow on recast timer for Ichi. Like, the worst part is that /NIN is still the clear winner for any defensive needs, and the only good subjob for 1-handed jobs DPS in 99% of situation, all you've done is just made the jobs shittier to play for everyone involved. One of the Devs on the live stream today went into some detail on their goal of making /NIN less necessary and never once brought up Dual wield or its irreplaceable value, which, granted, may just not have been on his mind at the time.

Like you guys are human, you're doing it on your free time, you get nothing out of it but the satisfaction of your efforts. Its a passion project, you're not a professional dev team, I understand. But it feels like there are blind spots, which i get, no chance you all have every job at 75 and had a full nuanced understand of each strength, weaknesses, and a respect for their endgame experience. I just wish there was a way I, or anyone could help, that wasn't flushing ideas into the dumpster that is "Suggestion" tab.

Anyway, once again, love you guys, great job, keep it up and I look forward to March's patch

I hear what you're saying, and it's not like they don't know that... because they buffed Tamas nicely to make it a choice vs. Rajas. They just have clear vendetta's against certain things and it's pretty stupid at times. For example someone posted a single screenshot getting 800+ xp (with the double XP ring, literally nothing but the text) in a BLM burn and within 24 hours they nerfed not only that entire camp but every era+ crab enemy they added so now they're all completely non-viable. It was such an insane knee-jerk. And in doing so they pretended something was "incorrect" about the crabs stat block but in actuality it was just Kipling taking a look at the result and going "nope". Which is funny because the screenshot isn't even a good example, and 1000+ is easily possible with the ring on existing classic enemies.

But you're right about the blind spots. One of the dev's accidentally unmuted themselves while streaming and freaking SUMMONER is on the chopping block of all things lol (don't tell your brother). I guess this is what happens when you play on someone else's pet project.

I'm still having fun too though. Watched Kipling and company claim Nidhogg last night and then rage it. It was quite the hilarious spectacle, took me back lol.

[Karbuncle]

Yah there is a dev or dev adjacent person(I.e someone helping with code rather voluntarily or otherwise) whos been discussing SMN as a job in the SMN job section of discord. I know the topic of damage was brought up, mostly that Hybrid Damage right now is over-buffed for Avatars (Ifrit/Flaming Crush/Burning Strike mostly) and will be getting corrected and it will be a noticable drop. So the topic kinda went toward how SMN is "good" right now and has Hateless damage and all that. I added to the discussion that I think SMN is perfectly balanced in that regard because they trade highs for a pretty flate-line middle ground they can't much push past. Meaning, the damage output potential of a really bad WAR and a fully geared WAR is miles wide that its like they're not even a good job, but the difference between a Shit SMN and a fully geared one? Pretty much the same output (In 75 era where lack of BPDmg/Pet:Acc/Atk gear exists).

A good WAR can go from 26% Haste and a buttload of Acc/Atk into like a STR+60WS set and keep swinging. That doesn't exist for Pets, and its what we trade for the "Consistency" aka "Hard damage wall" for pet jobs.

So while SMN is currently pretty powerful as it has consistent hateless enmity, as other DD gear up, the gap is going to become the grand canyon and SMN will be back to niche uses like idk, Nether Blast for LS who have to Kite Kirin until he runs out of MP. I really hope they don't nerf SMN on such a short-sighted look at their damage output just because right now, by nature of being a pet job, its got more consistency than the WAR still using AF armor.

I love the experience so far just because Im kinda reliving it through my brothers eyes, but a lot of my faith in this team is going to hinge on their Job balance patch in march. I need to know they know what they're doing. I have an optimistic look but man I think that patch will be a turning point for a lot of people, for better or worse.

Either way I know im venting here but there are a lot of good things they did. I'm actually enjoying the experience but I just wanted those complaints off my chest lol.

Edit: For what its worth apparently the "Stealth Earring" from Ancient Beast Coins now has Enhances "Dual Wield" on it. So im less angry than before about that change. The DM Earrings were all changed to Skill+'s and while Suppa was gutted the Dual wield was moved to another rather bad item from COP.

[Prothescar]

I think Brutal Earring DA procs will block triple attack iirc?

No. Triple Attack devalues DA not the other way around.

Special OAT(virtue weapons) > QA > TA > DA > Mythic AM3 > OAX (Ridill, joyeuse, kclub) > Zanshin

[Gredival]

I guess this is what happens when you play on someone else's pet project.

Yeah that's why I'm holding out for an official classic server.

But at the same time Mizuki Ito proved this same shit can happen on an official server, which is why we have a need for classic servers at al.

[Spicyryan]

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[Obsidian]

They've also said repeatedly they can't do a classic server even if they wanted to because they don't have copies of the old codebase.

[Spicyryan]

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[Gredival]

it should remind us all not to grind countless hours for a single item like a Mythic or something. As you can't ensure the character won't just "I don't feel so good, Mr Stark" on day.

No, that is the very point. The MMO is about those who bleed and sweat more than everyone else to acquire the pixels other people won't.

They've also said repeatedly they can't do a classic server even if they wanted to because they don't have copies of the old codebase.

I mean yes this is the easiest way to do it. There are other ways to do accomplish it -- but I doubt there's even the will to make a Classic server if they had the old code, much less having to adapt new code.

[Obsidian]

It's more than scaling stats down. It's undoing weaponskill changes, DW and Weapon Delay changes, drop rate changes, mob placements, mob AI changes, crafting changes, stat changes, damage formula changes, all the bug fixes tied to all those things, and who knows what else. No one who wants a Classic server is going to be happy with Retail scaled down to level 75.

[Spicyryan]

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[Spicyryan]

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[Tyrath]

They've also said repeatedly they can't do a classic server even if they wanted to because they don't have copies of the old codebase.

Whats with SE always losing old game codes.

[NynJa]

PS2 limitations

[Spicyryan]

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[Kipling]

I hear what you're saying, and it's not like they don't know that... because they buffed Tamas nicely to make it a choice vs. Rajas. They just have clear vendetta's against certain things and it's pretty stupid at times. For example someone posted a single screenshot getting 800+ xp (with the double XP ring, literally nothing but the text) in a BLM burn and within 24 hours they nerfed not only that entire camp but every era+ crab enemy they added so now they're all completely non-viable. It was such an insane knee-jerk. And in doing so they pretended something was "incorrect" about the crabs stat block but in actuality it was just Kipling taking a look at the result and going "nope". Which is funny because the screenshot isn't even a good example, and 1000+ is easily possible with the ring on existing classic enemies.

But you're right about the blind spots. One of the dev's accidentally unmuted themselves while streaming and freaking SUMMONER is on the chopping block of all things lol (don't tell your brother). I guess this is what happens when you play on someone else's pet project.

I'm still having fun too though. Watched Kipling and company claim Nidhogg last night and then rage it. It was quite the hilarious spectacle, took me back lol.

I can't nerf anything based on a "knee jerk" reaction. All decisions are team decisions. I am not a server owner and my name isn't even on the box. Nor am I a coder who could implement any changes if I wanted to. The camp was nerfed because we saw people leveling there days before that topic was made and went on to the test server and were routinely doing full damage nukes as level 66 BLMs naked with no food. It had to be changed. You shouldn't be able to nuke mobs 17 levels higher than you completely naked with no resists. Whether you think you should be able to do that or not - we can disagree.

Yah there is a dev or dev adjacent person(I.e someone helping with code rather voluntarily or otherwise) whos been discussing SMN as a job in the SMN job section of discord. I know the topic of damage was brought up, mostly that Hybrid Damage right now is over-buffed for Avatars (Ifrit/Flaming Crush/Burning Strike mostly) and will be getting corrected and it will be a noticable drop. So the topic kinda went toward how SMN is "good" right now and has Hateless damage and all that. I added to the discussion that I think SMN is perfectly balanced in that regard because they trade highs for a pretty flate-line middle ground they can't much push past. Meaning, the damage output potential of a really bad WAR and a fully geared WAR is miles wide that its like they're not even a good job, but the difference between a Shit SMN and a fully geared one? Pretty much the same output (In 75 era where lack of BPDmg/Pet:Acc/Atk gear exists).

A good WAR can go from 26% Haste and a buttload of Acc/Atk into like a STR+60WS set and keep swinging. That doesn't exist for Pets, and its what we trade for the "Consistency" aka "Hard damage wall" for pet jobs.

So while SMN is currently pretty powerful as it has consistent hateless enmity, as other DD gear up, the gap is going to become the grand canyon and SMN will be back to niche uses like idk, Nether Blast for LS who have to Kite Kirin until he runs out of MP. I really hope they don't nerf SMN on such a short-sighted look at their damage output just because right now, by nature of being a pet job, its got more consistency than the WAR still using AF armor.

I love the experience so far just because Im kinda reliving it through my brothers eyes, but a lot of my faith in this team is going to hinge on their Job balance patch in march. I need to know they know what they're doing. I have an optimistic look but man I think that patch will be a turning point for a lot of people, for better or worse.

Either way I know im venting here but there are a lot of good things they did. I'm actually enjoying the experience but I just wanted those complaints off my chest lol.

Edit: For what its worth apparently the "Stealth Earring" from Ancient Beast Coins now has Enhances "Dual Wield" on it. So im less angry than before about that change. The DM Earrings were all changed to Skill+'s and while Suppa was gutted the Dual wield was moved to another rather bad item from COP.

The problem with the divine might earrings is nothing really replicated the dual wield bonus suppa had. So if you have a dual wield job and you don’t pick it, you’re basically doing it wrong. By moving it onto another hard to get item players can have more of a choice on DM earrings rather than feeling forced to pick Suppa, which is what used to happen. The idea is to make players feel less restricted while buffing what was generally considered a worthless item at the same time.

[Karbuncle]

Which yah, as I said in my edit, makes sense. Though if I'm being honest given the choices whats occurred here is im probably just not going to do Divine Might anymore unless i really want an Evasion set macro piece in the future as now none of the options seem particularly appealing to my job sets.

But hey after I get Brutal Earring at least my ABC's will be useful for something other than selling. Wonder if they buffed that useless fucking Ribbon lol?

I'd still like to know if the balance team has had any reconsiderations about nerfing Utsu Ichi in respect to there still being literally 0 viable replacement subjobs for jobs like THF if i want to Low-man high-difficulty NMs like Bune, Ungure, Pelican, basically anything level 75+?

I fully understand the intent of the Nerfs even if I dont agree with the results, the appeal of wanting to make other sub job options viable but you've not done that you've just made our lives harder and we're still glued to /NIN for basically everything as its still not only the only job with dual wield but its still the only job with defensive utilities light-armor roles can utilize effectively.

Like, I loved to solo/Low-Man challenging content back then on THF and even with Utsu it took a lot of timing, luck, skill, and preparation. I don't want that taken from me because someone is hangry that they had to come to DYnamis war WAR/NIN again instead of WAR/SAM thanks to a WHM not wanting to heal them.

I know you probably cant answer any of this and yes, I personally fully understand you don't have final say it shit and its a collaborative effort. I imagine you don't fully agree with every change made either. Sometimes its just nice to be told nothing personally

[Syrio]

With retail FFXI possibly heading offline at some point in the near future: rockpapershotgun.com/after-20-years-final-fantasy-11-is-heading-into-maintenance-mode. Someone should put together an accurate representation of the 75era, because Horizon is NOT it. The non-sensical random changes to jobs, adding imbalanced equipment, pulling damage formulas from thin air etc., have led to a horrendous product gameplay-wise. Its like an easy open sandbox of complete randomness with the FFXI label slapped on it.

What doesn't make sense is that, Ninja obviously financially supports the server and likely has gotten other streamers to stream the product to raise/maintain community awareness. The admin group is obviously getting paid through these streams(no issue there), the server owner aerec seems competent in leadership, despite an aire of self-importance as the "Horizon -P", community leader Kipling seems like a really good dude with a good sense of "fairness" when it comes to dealing with issues and they have an army of developers who helped put Wings together, which I thought was very well done despite some non-game breaking bugs. How is the product so bad?? Shouldn't you want the most polished product you could put out, to maintain support from the online gaming community?

The quests all work for the most part. The various QOL changes make sense. The launcher is seamless. But whomever is responsible for how the game PLAYS, should no longer be involved with the product. In fact, there is a dev on discord(Jimm) who always talks about how great he made SMN when he absolutely ruined SMN's damage calculations and job makeup. Same with frank and BST. It just makes no sense. There are also a ton of game-altering bugs with mobs, job abilities/traits, damage output etc etc etc. Yes all these things can be worked out, but having been on Wings at launch, which as far as I know, was built on the same platform, they had nowhere near the same amount of issues. The GM team also has no clue how to peg bots which have been around for 15+ years and so easy to spot.

Horizon should solicit feedback from the players if they were to ever consider making changes. It's clear the decision makers have no concept of how most of these jobs play., ie the intricacies, including jobs that were enhanced like PLD. Whomever made changes to MNK though did a great job.

And yes this all matters because right now, you cant play on Horizon if you are experienced in FFXI. It's just pointlessly broken and easy and Horizon has simultaneously taken the player base from everyother Pserver and also retail, where it appears tons of players are joining, playing for awhile and then moving on due to the countless issues. They really shouldve considered a year-long open beta with their current changes so everyone starts off with the same knowledge, and in the meantime, everyone gets their Kclub, Pcharm, HNM fix, and then launched a live bug-free, balanced instance in Dec. 2023

[Madeline]

Y'all out here acting like people don't spin these up so they can make money and do whatever the fuck they want.

[Draylo]

You seem to think they have the actual code of the game, they aren't reinventing the wheel. They don't have all the code to accurately mirror the 75 era, not even SE themselves has the code which is why they never even considered private servers. They are backwards engineering it all and filling in the gaps with guess work. It will never play like you remember and will be a buggy mess always.