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Thread: Ninja, xp PT question     submit to reddit submit to twitter

  1. #1
    Smells like Onions
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    Ninja, xp PT question

    I'm currently in a static that consists of Nin/war, blm/whm, whm/blm/smn, thf/war/nin, and myself mnk/war/thf..

    Now heres my question, do you think there is ever a time when a Nin is more than capable of achieving agro on there own, and do not need the first voke from me, so they can get sata agro.

    (Our nin is extremely well equipped(scorp when we get that lvl) and she use's every ninjutsu not just Utsusemi, double mb's, debuffs etc etc.

    The reason i am asking this question is because, well.. mnk's do have alot of hp, but not alot of def and its a major drain on the whm's mp.. that would be nice to eliminate if possible. I'm under a very strong belief that our Nin is very capable of attaining, and maintaing agro on her own.. but before jumping to this conclusing i'd appreciate some feedback.

    Thanks in advance.

    Ant

  2. #2
    Black Belt
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    i've partied with NINs with no THF in the party so yes.

  3. #3
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    Re: Ninja, xp PT question

    Quote Originally Posted by Atomant
    I'm currently in a static that consists of Nin/war, blm/whm, whm/blm/smn, thf/war/nin, and myself mnk/war/thf..

    Now heres my question, do you think there is ever a time when a Nin is more than capable of achieving agro on there own, and do not need the first voke from me, so they can get sata agro.

    (Our nin is extremely well equipped(scorp when we get that lvl) and she use's every ninjutsu not just Utsusemi, double mb's, debuffs etc etc.

    The reason i am asking this question is because, well.. mnk's do have alot of hp, but not alot of def and its a major drain on the whm's mp.. that would be nice to eliminate if possible. I'm under a very strong belief that our Nin is very capable of attaining, and maintaing agro on her own.. but before jumping to this conclusing i'd appreciate some feedback.

    Thanks in advance.

    Ant
    Um, scorp harness is no good unless u have a thf in the pt , if u dont u need to wear arhat's gi, and anyways, later on, a nin wont be able to keep hate by himself, u need thf sata at first 8) + i donno if thats a good idea to static that way to 75, since the only skillchain ull be able to do is distortion all the way to 75

  4. #4
    Guest

    Even with thf in pt, it's easy to hold hate without SATA.

  5. #5
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    well, i got used to partying without thf in my pt. i hold hate just fine without thf. since you are in a static, your blm's should know when to nuke and how much to nuke.

  6. #6
    Puppetmaster
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    Was in a party last night which consisted of: nin rng mnk whm blm rdm. The nin had a bit of trouble holding hate, and I didn't haste the monk or he ended up taking too much dmg.

    Still the nin did an admirable job of holding hate from such big DD. I'll tell you what though, that blm sure appreciated gravity in that pt 8)

  7. #7

    I think the first SATA is worthless, I'm a PLD and I hate when a THF insists on SATA at the beginning...

    Whoever is the first voker usually ends up taking way too much damage while you wait for the THF to SATA, pretty much cancelling out the whole purpose of SATA on main tank.

    Secondly, by provoking first, that creates unnecessary hate, it's like saying: "Let the first voker get a bunch of hate, so I can put a bunch of hate on the tank." What's the point? In my opinion it's better for the tank to provoke first so no one else takes any initial damage. Secondary vokers take too much damage with a slow THF, and sometimes I end up provoking/flashing before SATA goes off so they won't die.

    Furthermore, when someone vokes first, and continues to do damage, sometimes SATA doesn't even turn the mob until I provoke/flash, that alone should prove that it's not really a good idea.

  8. #8
    Melee Summoner
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    What I've seen work, and granted my static only does this w/ WS (PLD, SAM, DRK/THF), SAM would voke, PLD would flash to give the SAM a few seconds of little to no damage, and the PLD usually keeps hate low enough for our SC to go off.. now I guess if the SAM didn't use WS and it were a THF, he might not keep hate, but I dunno.. I definitely see where SATA with a bad (slow) THF is really detrimental, but if you have a really good THF on the other hand, it can be extremely useful. ^^

  9. #9
    Xavier
    Guest

    Quote Originally Posted by Almaa
    I think the first SATA is worthless, I'm a PLD.
    You also have +15 or so enmity, a ninja does not. So while you honestly don't need a trick to hold hate, it goes a long way in helping ninja. Its not required, but I know ninja don't mind it being done to help them out.

  10. #10

    I think at lower lvls, THF should focus on trying to get the initial sa/ta off on the tank simply b/c the gear for NIN might not be there to keep hate. Also i feel this way for PLD at lower lvls. The fights are longer and need a little bit of downtime between pulls for mages to rest their MP, this gives the THF plenty of time to use sa/ta before the pull and put hate on the tank at the start. Usually this can be done with the secondary voker only getting hit once, and should never get hit more than twice.

    I find at higher lvls tanks (pld/nin) get too good at holding hate. i.e. if I put a sa/ta on at the start, it won't turn for the SC >< Recently i've been exping in bibiki bay, where we pull as fast as we can after kill. Ninja will voke at start, and has no problem holding hate from our rng. The mob will still turn for SC though, which makes this optimal for our setup *brd or rdm, thf, rng, nin, blm, whm* occasionally i'll sa/ta/hide some hate on the ninja at the start when he vokes, which will put an extra 500-550 dmg for him at the start, but makes the SC only turn occasionally.

    I guess to more simply answer Ant's question, you just have to get a feel for it. If your nin starts holding hate over you for your WS, and you start pulling very fast chains, maybe switching to nin voke @start will be a viable option.

  11. #11

    Quote Originally Posted by Xavier
    Quote Originally Posted by Almaa
    I think the first SATA is worthless, I'm a PLD.
    You also have +15 or so enmity, a ninja does not. So while you honestly don't need a trick to hold hate, it goes a long way in helping ninja. Its not required, but I know ninja don't mind it being done to help them out.
    Way to misquote me and ignore the rest of my post.

  12. #12
    Smells like Onions
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    Thanks for the input, we're going to be experimenting with all that pretty soon, we just did papyrus(lich's not good to test hate theory on as a monk ><) anyway, if anyone else has any tips/input they think would be useful PLEASE share 8)

  13. #13
    Fake Numbers
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    Ato kept pulling hate off the 69 pld last night >< I guess on bones it doesnt really matter what kind of tank you have ; ;

  14. #14
    Xavier
    Guest

    Quote Originally Posted by Almaa
    ignore my post.
    Ok if you insist.

  15. #15

    Quote Originally Posted by Xavier
    I'm a huge fag.
    Oh my.

  16. #16
    Sea Torques
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    i <3 ninjas. they're the best!!! yep yep.

  17. #17
    Xavier
    Guest

    At least when I misquoted you, I took your actual sentence and just left a few words out. What you wrote is complete libel.

  18. #18

    Quote Originally Posted by Xavier
    sentance

  19. #19
    Xavier
    Guest

    Cool, because clearly spelling on the internet is all that really matters, right?

  20. #20
    Fake Numbers
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    i hereby declare this thread......

    Hijacked!

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