Thoughts about the Noble Tunic

[layoneil]

obviously everything that's posted on our frontpage is big big news on Bahamut and should be big news on all FFXI servers.

[joft]

Nobody's really making a big deal out of it, we're just having fun exercising our uncanny ability to be right about everything all of the time

[Amarok]

I don't see how this is any of BG's business, the transaction was done between buyer and seller. For Berticus to butt in is just stupid, posting it on your frontpage and calling it "stealing" is pretty low-brow. It was not a theft, but a mistake. In this case, the buyer chose to not be very forgiving. What I want to know is, why are you fighting other people's (Worldx's) battles for them? Cheapens your linkshell's image to get involved in petty squabbles like this.

Hmm, I don't know. Possibly because he asked Berticus for help?

[berticus]

like when we run into problems with JPs, he helps us out because he can speak complex enough japanese (since hes fluent) to make an explanation. on the flipside, he can't explain the whole miss thing and please give it back and it's the right thing to do in english, so he asked me to do it for him.

[Aphesia]

I dont think were making a Big deal of it. I believe the only reason Berticus posted it on the front page was to warn others on the server of Heartilys Shadyness and to be aware. Also, while Worldx (Being JPN Player) is a close friend to the LS, itd be common for a friend to help another out (Especially when the 2 parties invloved speak 2 different languages).

Although I feel heartily isnt a thief and that it is Worldxs fault for not being more careful placing an item of that value up on the AH more carefully, heartily is still Wrong for not correcting the situation and doing what us decent players feel is right. Im sure Worldx understands that in Vanadiel, just like in the real world, there are Groovy and Shady folk. Thats what makes this world interesting. People can and will capitalize on others mistakes and thus is the case in this situation. Thats my 13 Cents

[joft]

Although I feel heartily isnt a thief and that it is Worldxs fault for not being more careful placing an item of that value up on the AH more carefully

Heartily did this before with a vermillion cloak. He apparently intentionally attempts 10% bids quite frequently. Yet, it's not his fault?

[rooster]

Heartly is a girl joft... a chinese girl.

[Aphesia]

Heartily did this before with a vermillion cloak. He apparently intentionally attempts 10% bids quite frequently. Yet, it's not his fault?

No, I dont see how it is Heartilys fault. That only goes to show that she exploits other peoples mistakes. What youre saying is that if I bid 170,000 for a jupiters staff instead of 1,700,000 and by chance win the bid that it is "My Fault"? I think the person who posted the item is at fault here. Would I return the item in exchange for what I paid? Yes, morally, of course. This is not the case with Heartily. But I still dont feel "She" is to blame for someone elses "Error" although she is wrong for not returning the item.

[Dethsbane]

Heartily did this before with a vermillion cloak. He apparently intentionally attempts 10% bids quite frequently. Yet, it's not his fault?

No, I dont see how it is Heartilys fault. That only goes to show that she exploits other peoples mistakes. What youre saying is that if I bid 170,000 for a jupiters staff instead of 1,700,000 and by chance win the bid that it is "My Fault"? I think the person who posted the item is at fault here. Would I return the item in exchange for what I paid? Yes, morally, of course. This is not the case with Heartily. But I still dont feel "She" is to blame for someone elses "Error" although she is wrong for not returning the item.

Thank you very much. I couldn't have said it any better. Orz

[joft]

But I still dont feel "She" is to blame for someone elses "Error" although she is wrong for not returning the item.

It's really quite simple... she attempts 10% bids; therefore, she is at fault for buying things for 10%. If she hadn't been attempting 10% bids, she wouldn't be buying them at 10%. I'm not saying that the person who put it for 10% (accidentally, as opposed to Heartily's purposeful actions) isn't at fault either. Both actions are required for the result, but one of the actions was unintentional. So you place the greater part of the blame on the person who didn't mean for it to happen, only because their part had to chronologically come first?

[Makochin]

My main point about this thread is that Berticus shouldn't have called those two thieves in fact they never actually stole anything, and that they did what the majority of us would do.

I would like to ask Berticus that if somebody accidentally sent him 10 mil gil, would he return it? What about 50 mil? 100 mil? 500 mil? One would think at some point, greed will take over. That is just human nature, everyone commits a sin unless you're Ned Flanders playing ffxi. (That includes worldx, if someone sent him 500 mil, i doubt he'll return it) You're not more ethical if you return a 10mil item as oppose to a 100mil item, the situation is the same. Even if Berticus IS a saint, I am sure the majority of us have some level of greed, more or less. For me, I'll be honest and say that if I find a huge amount of gil in my delivory box one day, chances are I won't return it also. (I would've returned the nobles, probably takes a bit more than that to push me to the dark side) The only reason I'm posting this is that I take offense for being called a thief, as should the majority of people that reads bg's site should, since most people would've done the same thing hearilty did. The correct way would be to call Heartily more greedy than others, not generalize her actions as Stealing.

Please don't compare the auction house to the monster glitches in the game. As I said earlier, not many people would go mijin gakure kb at 1%, a lot more people would've kept the tunic.

[Sadler]

Aph is right.

You are either somebody who looks at this morally or personal. Put aside the friendship you have with Worldx Joft and you wouldnt be acting this way.

What Heartily and Soi has done will now effect there future respect in this game. (You might as wel sell your account and gil coz everybody will be watching for a dagger in there back while you are around)

I hope Hokuten does something about this personally coz Mogi knows thats one persons actions will effect the whole LS. (1 member without morals = LS without morals to other players)

Thats my 30 Pence from London

Lujan

[Sadler]

I would like to ask Berticus that if somebody accidentally sent him 10 mil gil, would he return it? What about 50 mil? 100 mil? 500 mil? One would think at some point, greed will take over.

Please dont compair somebody with morals with somebody that doesnt.

What Berticus done was right, he has made a huge population aware of what heartily and soi have been trying todo. At least this has made many people more aware of the situation...

Go read a dictionary please coz the word "Thief" has other related synonyms such as ;-

bandit, booster, burglar, bush ranger, cat burglar, cat man, cheat, clip, crasher, cribber, criminal, crook, defalcator, dip, embezzler, heister, highwayman, hijacker, holdup man, housebreaker, kleptomaniac, larcener, larcenist, lifter, moonlighter, mugger, nip, owl, pickpocket, pilferer, pirate, plunderer, porch climber, prowler, punk, purloiner, robber, scrounger, second-story man, shoplifter, sniper, spider, stealer, stickup man, swindler.

The wonders of the English language eh?

Would you like a example of Language?

a system of words used in a particular discipline; "legal terminology"; "the language of sociology"

Berticus selected the strongest word he could find inorder for people to take notice and pay attention(Such as a news paper would of choosen).


Lujan

[Makochin]

You might want to read the actual article Lujan. Berticus defined their action as Stealing, and to my knowledge, the people that does the stealing are called Thieves. Anyways, English has never been my forte, if you want to break down word by word please be my guest.

As for the morals, I'll compare it with a short Chinese allegory.

2 soldiers, while fighting in a war, ran cowardly from the battlefield. One of them ran 500 metres away from the field, while the other ran away for 1km. Afterwards, the 500metre soldier called the 1km soldier a coward because he ran further, while in fact that both of them ran.

If someone sent you a 500mil item and you kept it, you have ran as well.

That is all I have to say, I'm not saying what Heartily did was right, it is just that I felt that calling them thieves was unjustified.

[rooster]

to me it's like this...

a RL example, you go to buy a bottle of water for 5.95, you had the clerk 10 dollars, for some reason the clerk makes a mistake and hads you change for 100 dollars... then! the split second he does so, he says, "hey wait, i just gave you 90+ dollars in change, my mistake... " and you say , "NO! MY LUCKY BREAK FKER~!"....

It's not stealing, because it's someone else's mistake, but it sure is an asshole to not give it back...

In the RL example, someone could lose their job and be caused much grief. It's a shame that there are people out there that are willing to "Screw ppl over" or "Make people suffer" to get ahead... but the same person mite not do it in a RL situation... it's that whole E-Distance thing if you ask me.

[Sadler]

Taking advantage of somebody misfortune is wrong regardless of circumstances.

[Zigrah]

The point is someone messed up big... This is not like stealing a mob it's like someone calling for help mistakingly on a mob and then expecting that they still deserve claim when the orange dissapears. However we have rules for peoples mistakes and the rules are leave the zone and everyone else randoms.

Everyone preaches perfect behaviour and moral upstanding when a situation arises but how many people will realize 20 minutes later that a store cashier gave you too much money and go back to give it to them. Not many people.

Corperate lobbying has nothing to do with it, people try to underbid on things all the time and buying stuff in one city and selling it in another is how some people make money. Nobody tells the person "Hey that sells for twice as much in Bastok".

It sucks it happened but seriously, put things up for auction slower. Nobody should expect someone to give it back or demand it be done and call them a thief... all you can do is ask nicely and hope the person is kind enough to do it.

But don't act so altruistic that people don't punish others for mistakes. Don't blame SE for worldx's mistake, this has no relevence to people calling for help or stealing mobs on purpose... they are nowhere near the same.

[nyuknyuk]

Hello I signed up today and see that Bahamut server has "Drama" as well. Just like my server. I was wondering why hasnt the person that sold it have not commented on the situation? He/She is in your LS right? My personal opinion this whole situation seems bigger then it should be. Should be Person to Person figuring out the problem rather Linkshell involved. I doubt whatever linkshell told this "heartily" person to go purchase it.



"I hope Hokuten does something about this personally coz Mogi knows thats one persons actions will effect the whole LS. (1 member without morals = LS without morals to other players)"-Sadler

I can understand this,But then i read your guys other "BG Kirin Schedule" and found this...

"As for others, what they say (as a reaction to your words) is up to them, and I'm not responsible for it, so talk to them. You do seem to be the one stepping out of "calm civil debate" into "flaming" by saying stuff like"-Berticus

<Hmmm> <That's Intresting>

My opinion,but something does not seem to add up. The two people on oppisite sides Sold/Bought should be discussing this whether it was wrong or right. I hope you get these problems resolved. Good Luck~

[Amarok]

My opinion,but something does not seem to add up. The two people on oppisite sides Sold/Bought should be discussing this whether it was wrong or right. I hope you get these problems resolved. Good Luck~

Obviously you did not read any of this thread. The person who sold it is Japanese and hardly speaks english. He is friend with Berticus and asked bert(who speaks jp) to ask the person in english to give it back.

[berticus]

nyuknyuk, you're comparing forum debate with game ethics. if someone engages in a debate on a forum, i can't control it, and i don't think i should. if someone from bg steals an NM however, which is different from forum chat, then maybe Ed or a sack holder should deal with them.

two totally different things