Slam here. (Beliefs and Opinions Thread)

[Onizuka]

see, we men are the inferior ones though. we would never be able to reproduce on our own

Women don't make semen from their asses 8)

Like Sept said would you chose to be beaten to death or have to hide everything about yourself and be lonley just because you wanted too... I like women cause of everything about them not just sex, i like men as friends and would rather have a guy friends than women by far. if this was wrong and men were supose to be with men, i couldn't change liking women if i wanted too, just like gay men cant change what they are.

The bible is not something God wrote and put in store shelfs...it is an assesment of diffrent holy books, if being gay is a sin then it is, but im sure nobody is going to hell for being gay alone..meaning they have done everything in the bible right to the T of perfection but insted are gay, we all do alot of things that are against the bible. i don't think we should put the topic of Gay and God together

PS: America voted for a president because he opposed gay marrige

[Romero]

actually in the bible it says something like "man shouldnt go to bed with another man" or something along those lines... making it a sin. personally i dont have a problem with gay people, even tho i do think the whole born that way stuff is a load

WOO HOO so you can be gay as long you don't go in to the same bedroom! =b

Anyway, it isn't a gene so much that makes you gay. It is a genetic condition (Condition = lack of a better word that I can think of while I am brain fried at work) that wires the brain and chemical distribution to give your internal workings a more feminine feel. Hence some men act, and feel like women.

Thanks to psychology and classes in Biochemistry !

[Daahan]

Chicago Joft.

[Nirokun!]

>.>

First, I'd like to thank Sept for totally being the calm, rational representative and taking the words out of my mouth, then making them all nice and pretty for you all to read :D

...and umm, saving me time doing the good gay thing and reasoning all day with whoever (so I don't have to) while I procrastinate on my anthropology midterm by reading this forum!

Well, nobody mentioned the advantage of having gays and lesbians around...I dont have the link to the place where I read it, but the gist (if that word is spelled wrong im sorry ) of it is about this:

Having non-breeding couples in a family/clan/tribe/whatever group is beneficial to the breeding family members. Instead of providing for their own families, the gays hunt with the rest of the men and bring in more food, and serve as more protection for less children. The lesbians I assume do their female-gathering thing, and care for the children (not trying to sound chauvenistic, hunter-gatherers you see) and provide that whole grandmother-effect thing.

The evidence for this is the increasing trend that each successive child is more likely to be gay/lesbian than the one preceding it, so the likelihood of having heterosexual/breeding older siblings's children there to care for is more likely.

There is also something with the length of the ring-finger in gay men being affected by the levels of testosterone...but thats not all too clear to me and I'd hate to throw that one out, its just a minor detail...

So umm, yay for my first post...

[joft]

I've been hearing this argument a lot lately, the one about "Why would anyone choose to be discriminated against?" etc. I understand the point of the argument, but really, the question is not rhetorical. There are reasons people would choose a lifestyle that would cause them to be persecuted and hated and so on.

There are many people who have chosen lifestyles that caused them much grief, but not many people would argue that they were born that way. From people converting to christianity in radically islamic or communist nations to kids in high school choosing to be a part of one of the less popular sub-cultures (goths maybe? it depends on where you are I guess). There is even a certain attraction to and romanticism about facing impossible odds. "It's me against the world" type of thing. That's what so many of our movies and stories are about (The Matrix, etc).

I know it may seem offensive to suggest what I have suggested when you consider that many homosexual people have suffered and/or died as victims in hate crimes. But I'm not saying that all homosexual people chose to be gay, or that all of them were born that way. This is tied closely to the debate of nature vs. nurture, and because I think that the whole premise behind that debate is flawed, I also think that trying to draw distinct lines in this issue is fruitless.

I don't think that nature and nurture are even distinguishably separate ideas. I don't think anything about any human being can be linked to exclusively one of them and not both. So I think it's pointless to argue about whether someone is born homosexual or decides to become that way later in life.

[Septimus]

I've been hearing this argument a lot lately, the one about "Why would anyone choose to be discriminated against?" etc. I understand the point of the argument, but really, the question is not rhetorical. Stuff...

I guess it all comes down to this. For all of the heterosexuals in the room, when did you decide to become straight? How many gay relationships did you have before you decided that you should try out an opposite-sex relationship? For all of the guys in the room, how many men did you sleep with before you decided to give women a shot?

Homosexuality is not something that you decide to do, like change your hair color or go on the Atkin's Diet. It is either there or not. But I am not suggesting that it is either 0 or 1, there are many shades of bisexuality in the mix too. That is why Kinsey created a 0 through 6 scale to describe sexual orientation; 0 for exclusive heterosexuality, 6 for exclusive homosexuality, and 1 - 5 for differing amounts of attraction to both sexes. (There was a later revision to the Kinsey scale that was two-dimensional to include asexuality, it is fairly interesting, and it seems, well ahead of its time looking upon recent research.)

A lot of people talk about "fluid sexuality", that over time one's sexual orientation can change, but personally I think that is simply bisexuality with a chaser of denial. There is a concept of "resistance", then when homosexual behavior was labeled as "disordered," "self-indulgent", and "threaten the lives and well-being of a large number of people", people who engaged in homosexual behavior created an identity, and that identity. The process of trying to eliminate homosexual behavior created the modern homosexual.

The gist of the above paragraph is that "gay" and "straight" are labels that we assign to ourselves due to our behavior and/or desire. But even without those labels, the behavior still exist, as witnessed in the animal kingdom.

Once more, the choices we have are what we call ourselves, and weather we stand up for ourselves. Sexual desire is unchangeable; there are tons of "ex-ex-gays" who can attest to that.

[joft]

I guess it all comes down to this. For all of the heterosexuals in the room, when did you decide to become straight? How many gay relationships did you have before you decided that you should try out an opposite-sex relationship? For all of the guys in the room, how many men did you sleep with before you decided to give women a shot?

Good point. But on that note, I also don't think all heterosexual people are born heterosexual or that all of them choose to be heterosexual either. For a large portion of most people's earliest years they are asexual, and influenced and taught genders in their relationships (with friends, siblings, parents), toys (barbies, army men) and clothes (blue or pink, frilly, pants or dresses) and so on.

My question is, why does it all have to come down to this anyway? Why does it matter whether someone is born with that inclination or makes a decision without any predisposition either way? I think that, unfortunately, the largest motivating factor behind assigning sexual preference to genes is to be able to use it as an excuse. To me that means that a lot of the people who are doing it have been influenced enough by those saying homosexuality is wrong to feel guilty about their sexuality. Who cares if it was or wasn't in your control? Why doesn't anyone try to make the argument that even if it was a choice there's nothing wrong with choosing it? Instead of "God wouldn't send me to hell over this, he made me this way!" If that wasn't at least part of the motivation for a lot of people then why is it so important? Why is it such a big debate?

I should also mention that I don't think sexual preference is so neatly defined and set in stone anyway. I'm not talking about "fluid sexuality" or whatever someone else calls it. I'm just saying I don't think it's like a switch with 2, or 3 or even 6 positions. To me it is just a matter of one of the means of originally causing our species to reproduce being used for things other than reproduction. To argue that any of it is wrong morally I think you would have to argue that all sex for any purpose other than reproduction is wrong. And I don't think there are many people who would agree with that, even the majority of strict catholics (who I'm sure, even if they agree in words, prove otherwise with their actions).

[Roree]

Aww but i wanted to go to a gay reprogramming camp this summer. I saved up 500k in gil to do it to!!!

MY father is gay and my mom is a lesbiana.... I have a extremely homophobic brother and then there is me! I act exactly like my father... walk talk gesture same ideas and thoughts. Yet i never was around my father except on rare occasions. This would be the nature side of the dabte. Ywet my borther is str8 and acts nothing like my father... this is nurture side. Psychologists advise people who are supreme homophobs are sacred to come out in most cases as gay. Thru up bringing society peer groups blah blah blah.

Alot of the homophobes are the same ones you will see in newpapers and such after they beat some guy up or kill him after narfing. Guilt and such is terrible and why let others know let me just get rid of the evidence. The percentage quoted of 6% world population being gay is of measurable accounts. Numerous homosexual are not out nor would they even say they were in an annonymous forum of any kind.

I am gay cause i just enjoy a man all around. Well excpet for sports..... TV watching is boring but being there in person is ok. I have a guacamole load of str8 guy freinds and they like having me around for less competition plus i make them look good and help them learn how to dress.

On a differant note... consider gays population control.... At current rate of world growth we are going to have to either start killing peopleoff or eating them. Homosexuals tend to balance the equation out more so.

gay monkies and penguins aside. I have had sex with a girl.... but i was really drunk and didnt know what i was doing.... Whether your gay str8 bi or confused you are same as anyone else... 90% or so of homosexuals are not even ones you'd know were. Str8 guys love lesbians but alot of them dont care for gays... Hmm maybe if they knew that 95% of situations where there is hot mithra on mithra action you'd never be able to see or partake in.

Its always so suprising to see how limited people are when it comes to acceptong things unfamiliar or oppostie of them. People make comments like we are some sort of mutation or defect or even abomination. Now if i had 3 arms and half a heart that has a hole in it and horns sprouting from my head as it turns and spits out pea soup... i'd be worried. Until then i will stay here with my boi and last another 6 years +.

[Nirokun!]

The whole genetic basis of sexuality is still in theory, there is evidence, but not enough to jump it from theory to fact.

http://members.aol.com/slevay/page22.html#_Genes

(he has an AOL page...not very credible, but whatever, read if you want)

And for doubt in the whole sexual fluidity thing: gay up until 5th grade (jean-claude vann-damme [sp?] was hot in Double Impact); straight in 5th grade, yay for grabbing melissa's butt; bisexual in 6th grade (there was this vietnamese girl...and this white guy...i wanted both ); gay again through my first year of college...and i think i'm done switching around, but who knows...

As long as I dont switch again if [ever] i should get married [man or woman
], i dont mind switching.

A quote to sum it all up:
"Love knows no gender."
ok, everybody together! "AWWW!" :D

[Nirokun!]

Quick post:

Roree and Septimus spreading wisdom to confused little minds, one at a time.

<Roree> Niro what are you doing?
<Septimus> Get your act together, I'm gonna miss the galka parade.
<Nirokun> huh/
<Nirokun> *?
<Nirokun> sorry, was afk, some guy thought i was some flat-chested asian girl and was hitting on me, i had to show him my ID
<Nirokun> so what are we up to??? o.o

Roree looks at Nirokun and sighs dejectedly.
Septimus looks at Nirokun and sighs dejectedly.

And me, you know i like to LAAAAAAAG behind :D

[Demetrick]

crap i realized i made a grammar mistake,

i really don't like anal probs

unless its Makaze being the admin for it.

[Makaze]

Onry for you deme :wink:

(I'm sorry I lied... onry for you and the rest of bahamut... and everyone else playing FFXI)

/hump ^^v

[Onizuka]

I got a question...how the hell does a gay marrige work
It's hard enough being st8 and having a good marrige, being gay when your young is "fun" dating diffrent expirences but when you find that special person, being gay at 24 and getting "married" for the rest of your life, your gonna be with this 1 guy for 50 years.....i think thats the most boring thing i could ever think of. I couldn't live without having children, life is too long to spend with 1 person alone with nothing to share, nothing to love together more than you love anything.

[Roree]

Most gay relationships are like dog years... 1yea rin a str8 relationship is 7 or so in gay years. First we can not be openly a couple much. Most public areas and situation would get us hurt just to hold hads. I have been with my BF for almost 6 years now and 99% or people my age that are gay or str8 last maybe a year before they try to kill each other. Gay str8 bi whatever... relationships really are not that differant other than PDA parts.

[Sekkite]

I'm heterosexual, though I don't have anything against gays.
Am I religious? Kinda. Do I believe in God? Yes.

However, I am also a Democrat, supporting freedom. Consequently, I don't believe in imposing my view on others. This means that if there are homophobes, I will not impose my view of there being nothing wrong with homosexuality on them. However, I fully believe they are entitled to their own views.

On another note, why oh why is the issue of homosexuality being brought up on this forum? Enough FFXI drama is brought up on here, no need to bring up religion and politics to stir up a debate both sides will argue to death and neither will win.

[Saashaa]

cause people like seeing two mithra going at it, but not so much seeing 2 hume/elvaan/galka/taru males(or some combination) going at it.

[Onizuka]

Most gay relationships are like dog years... 1yea rin a str8 relationship is 7 or so in gay years. First we can not be openly a couple much. Most public areas and situation would get us hurt just to hold hads. I have been with my BF for almost 6 years now and 99% or people my age that are gay or str8 last maybe a year before they try to kill each other. Gay str8 bi whatever... relationships really are not that differant other than PDA parts.

Ahh i see, ohh and /clap wow 6 years Roree i didn't even know you were gay, explains the taru girl 6 years is amazing st8 or gay, i got a question though can you stay with him through old age, job changes and experiance life together as a whole without it getting boring?

Im st8 and when i don't know something i don't asume i ask :D

PS: When this hits page 4 i expect Mithra porn...well seeing the Topic Galka porn will do just fine 8)

[Roree]

I dont really sit there and think about growing old together.... I just do whatever and its lasted6 years so far.

[Endo]

I will speak on this issue because being in the military, we were faced with this a few years ago. The way the military handled the situation in my mind was equal to how our govt deals with any situation they cant throw a bomb at and that was to not speak of it and hope it goes away, hence "Dont ask dont tell policy". It seems to me that society has and always will adjust and adapt to surroundings and culture changes. You will always have a section of the population who resist change or acceptance of change. Which is fine because its human nature. Personally I believe that someones sexuality does not define them as a person nor ability to do a job.

As far as the question of is it right or wrong, I dont feel that is a fair question to be asking. The reason is, I believe that, not a single one of us was put here by "Our God or religious icon" to make decisions about someone else or to pass judgment. I myself am not gay, and most of my family or social circles would not accept the fact if I was. This does not mean that I look down on homosexuality either. I will only make judgment on myself and noone else.

Basically I think being gay or being straight has more to do with your surroundings, associates, past exp, and culture in which you were brought up, instead of a natural trait. If this was the case then Darwins theory would be irrelivant considering his famous pea plant experiments. If you take a hetero and homosexual and mate, they in turn should produce 2 hetero and 2 homosexual offspring. With the Heterosexual being the dominant trait (just basing dominance on most of the population today). The second set of offspring should be 3 hetero and 1 homosexual. If 2 homosexual mate it is impossible to produce offspring making the homosexual gene extinct within a few mating cycles. The only way to continue the homosexual gene would be to mate a homosexual and heterosexual which in turn would make them not homosexual in sexual aspect.

Enough rambling I guess and if this makes no sense sorry I had watch at 0500 this morning and just got off so bear with me

[Darkvalentine]

Enough rambling I guess and if this makes no sense sorry I had watch at 0500 this morning and just got off so bear with me

0400 for me ; ; another stupid jump :/