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  1. #1
    Relic Shield
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    People of the world

    let's start a revolution

    no more currency
    no more government

    it is debatable whether these things were ever needed, but one thing is very clear now; they are not needed anymore

    currency has always represented everything about the dehumanization of human life. from capitalism to socialism, as long as there is currency, a price can and will be put on human lives. time is money, money is time, life is moments in time, life is time, life is money. when you work for money you sell your time, you sell your life, for money. the money you get took less time for the employers to get than it took for you to get. you're selling more of your time for less of their's, you're selling more of your life for less of their's. currency makes more need for itself by inspiring materialism, creating more "need" for more money.

    government has always operated under the great presupposition that people are incapable of making their own decisions. they need an elite class of rulers with specialized education or assistance from "God" to maintain order or else there would be complete chaos. people would be incapable of the simple courtesy to abide by common sets of known norms such as which side of the road to drive on were there not some threat of government fines or other punishment to deter them. we earn our currency to pay our taxes so that the government can build a giant machine to roll down the road posting signs at regulated intervals, signs that also cost tax money, signs to tell everyone what the speed limit is. the great presupposition of government is that if it didn't do this, people would drive too fast than is safe and put themselves and others in danger. the reality is that nobody obeys the speed limits anyway, apparently the threat of fines is not enough. apparently government is not enough. individual responsibility is enough

    no more currency, no more government

    let's start a revolution, who's with me?

  2. #2

  3. #3
    Bagel
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    How many Apples do i need to trade for a PSP.....?

  4. #4
    E. Body
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    They are too \/

  5. 2005-04-15 08:51


  6. #5

    Re: People of the world

    Quote Originally Posted by joft
    no more currency
    no more government
    Humans will always have some sort of government and some sort of currency in one way or another. Currency might not be tangable and government may not be visible, but they'll be there.

  7. #6
    Relic Shield
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    You are wrong, we have lived without both before, when the primary mode of production was hunting and gathering. We've gone without either for periods of time in various places around the world, and I believe the next great step in the advancement of the human race will be to do away with both of them forever

  8. #7

    Just take Fight Club for an example.

  9. #8

  10. #9
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    If you don't have government or currency then how will the folks next door on welfare-only still drive a better car than me?

    I would hope people that weak would just die off to Natural Selection, which would be an obvious benefit to returning to pre-government days.

  11. #10
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    economic darwinism is a product of currency, whether it be in the every-man-for-himself capitalistic model or the nash equilibrium socialist model

    if farmers don't farm because they need money to pay for taxes, but instead the type of people who enjoy that lifestyle do it out of their own enjoyment and the good will to help feed everyone, people won't need state welfare to pay for groceries. the "weak" don't "die off" because of "survival of the fittest" natural selection. we all cooperate and we all help each other- why? because it's better that way

    we currently produce enough food in the high and middle income countries to feed everyone in the world, yet millions starve to death every year (mostly children under 10 years old). some governments pay farmers to burn some of their crops to keep market prices steady.

  12. #11
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    Agreed but is it even possible for a society that's been under capitalism for 200+ years? Folks with a mindset like a kind farmer would likely embrace it but what about the rest of the society?

    I'm not arguing the feasibility of it whatsoever (I agree it would be preffered) however I would imagine people living within the borders now are already "damaged beyond repair" toward a model such as this.

  13. #12

    Quote Originally Posted by joft
    some governments pay farmers to burn some of their crops to keep market prices steady.
    Umm, can you cite that? I find it a little unbelievable, I do know that farmers, in Minnesota especially, are paid NOT to farm areas near watersheds, like the Minnesota River Valley.

    A certain distance from the river that a farmer owns, is paid NOT to be farmed to prevent water run off, which results in things like the dead zone at the end of the Mississippi River.

    But the labor of tilling, planting, growing, then just burning. That just doesn't seem logical to put the hard work into it. And if you got to the point of harvesting only to burn, wouldn't you just harvest anyways and sell, because of all the money/labor/hours put in, you know HAS to be worth more on market than anything the government is going to pay you.

  14. #13
    CoP Dynamis
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    You'd be surprised. I've heard of the govenrment paying people to do things to keep markets stable. Just like the gas shortage... I really don't think there is one. People will pay for gas regardless of price. Why do you think the government will not allow complete electric motors for cars? Hybrids are ok. Hybrids use gas! If the government can make an extra buck, they will find a way to do it. Same with protecting their money. If something is in danger of chainging their income, they will find a way to prevent it.

  15. #14
    Ridill
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    Joft, there are two basic problems with this idea.

    First, humans are social primates. Social primates all have social orders: starting with alpha males, through breeding females, down to the untouchable omega males. Pretty much every human society looks like this in some way, shape, or form.

    Second, humans are inherently self-interested. This goes from looking out for number one, to greed, all the way to destroying those who are perceived as a monetary threat.

    Time and time again, true Socialism and Communism fail because they ignore these inherent principles of human nature. (They stick around, but they never quite reach that ideal of everyone is equal. Some people are always a little more equal than others.) But it is not just human nature; it is millions of years of evolution at work- greedy animals have a better chance at survival if they do not share food. Animals that travel in a pack have a better chance of survival because they can fend off or even prey upon lone animals.

    Would we be better off without money? Possibly, but money and necessity fuel invention.

    Would we be better off without a government? No, because a void in power will inexorably be filled by a gang of thugs.

    I do not belive in Social Darwinism, the regular kind explains society well enough.

  16. #15

    Quote Originally Posted by Septimus
    Would we be better off without a government? No, because a void in power will inexorably be filled by a gang of thugs.
    Gangs are forms of government.

  17. #16
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    We have "evolved" to a level of self-awareness and collective awareness that we know survival doesn't rely on being greedy and hogging the food.

    Our awareness has risen to a point where we know now of threats to our existence as a whole (asteroids, global warming, plate tectonics, etc). We are realizing that survival for every individual and the entire race will depend on our ability to cooperate, we are considerate enough to think about (and do extensive research into) how our actions may affect generations centuries from now.

    All the excuses are straw men

  18. #17
    Black Belt
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    Quote Originally Posted by joft
    We have "evolved" to a level of self-awareness and collective awareness that we know survival doesn't rely on being greedy and hogging the food.
    you have maybe, the majority of people are still ignant.

  19. #18
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    you have maybe, the majority of people are still ignant.
    You'll never escape this fact.

  20. #19
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    Don't worry, I already knew that the single most important part of the revolution would be education. One by one people will open their eyes and step out of the reality that government has constructed and limited them to

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