Petition

[Nermal]

i think another idea would be making the HNMs spawn in whole zones and not just specific places. ie. make behemoth have a much larger spawn area. and aspid can spawn anywhere in VoS

This can work on some, Aspid is a good example. Dragons Aery is a pretty compact place, there really isn't a great place else for him to spawn. Behemoths Domain also only has that one large spot, although I REALLY would of loved to of seen King Behemoth Spawn right near Lower Delkfutts Palace, that would of been so great.

I like the idea of varying the spawn time more, making it so HQ pop can go two days in a row, other various things that would atleast keep people on there toes. It is a shame that everyone knows when something is going to pop, make it random so you don't always have everyone there right away. Makes it more of a challenge, it would also break up the voke bots, not really able to do it if there is no set spawn point. I mean not only are most a 21-24 hour pop, but then they can only pop at a certain time during those, ie. the every 15 minutes.

[Quicklet]

I played FFXI from day one of NA release. As luck would have it, being one of the first people to create a character in NA release, I landed on Bahamut server, the oldest server and one that probably has a more predominant JP population than most other servers.

I remember the excitement I had at starting this new adventure, there were so many things to do. Being able to play one of the classic FF jobs in an MMO was awesome. The quests, while simple and not exactly very rewarding, were fun to do. A lot of the people I met the first few days had that same spirit of exploration and adventure. Even though I had landed into a game that had 2 years of history before I came, I really had no idea what kind of impact it was going to be from my first days in Windurst and the surrounding areas. Basically, the JP influence back then wasn't as competitors. Unfortunately, the primary influence it seemed to have for some of the people I knew was as people who could trivialize things like getting subjob items, doing rank missions, etc.

I remember a time when RMTing and gilfarmers were extremely rare. Sure, Songokou camped Valkurm Emperor 24 hours a day, but it was still possible for people to get it at a decent rate. There were no "Amemet squads" that MPKed you if you won claim over them. The HNM world was a relatively open place still. There were a lot of days when some HNMs would have little to no competition. It was actually possible to find yourself a place in the endgame without having it inevitably end up in a claim war (even though it still happened some of the time).

Fast forward a year. There are, more or less, the same amounts of HNMs in the game. The addition of an extra dozen or so HNMs is pretty much negated by the maturing of the server to an extent where most of the HNMs can be done with much smaller groups. Compound that problem with the fact that RMTing has become an undeniable problem to the game (evidenced by the RMT LSes that now camp HNMs to supply IGE with money), and you have yourself a recipe for a congested, tedious endgame.

You can say that the fact that only 1 EBody / ABody / MBody / NLegs enters the server every week makes it worth something, but the question is: When the first LS who was able to kill Nidhogg, KB, and Aspid on your server maxed out on those abjurations months ago, is it really that rare? If you want it to be relative, you can say that it's rare and worth something because almost no NAs have it. But when there are JP LSes who have multiple people who have full sets of cursed, sometimes for their 2nd or 3rd jobs, it tells me that it's not really that hard for them to get. Honestly, the only HNM item I can think of that's still actually rare enough to "oo" and "aah" at is defending ring. Everything else is just too common now.

Like Bert, I see the solution to the problem being more one of content rather than one of latency. Nothing is going to change the fact that a JP player with FTTH will outclaim an NA player (or a JP player with a bad connection) 99 times out of 100. I think underlying a lot of the "latency outcry" is the fact that if you're an endgame oriented person, the 2 main options for a HNMLS are sky and 3HQs. There's nothing to move onto that's an actual progression further from those. You can say "Well the 3wyrms are there, you can go kill those" but there's nothing about them that actually progresses an LS beyond a few "neat" items and the good feeling of doing it. Sure, it's fun, but there's no reason why (assuming claiming isn't a factor) an LS would go do Tiamat instead of Nidhogg.

IMO, there is a difference between content being difficult and just being plain tedious. There is nothing "difficult" about relic upgrade save getting the attestation and getting the fragment. The rest of it can be accomplished by someone who RMTs 100 million gil and just buys up currency whenever they see it. The actual difficult components of relic can be accomplished within a week, while the tedious component of relic would take a single dynamis LS over 6 months just for one person.

At one time, I think 3 HQ HNMs was enough to satisfy the number of players who were working toward those items. When there are all of 200 people who are hunting an item, 3-6 of those items coming out per week isn't all that bad. When that number starts approaching 1000+ people on a server who are trying to get that item, then it becomes an issue of there just not being enough content out there for the number of people in the game.

For the people who say "If you don't like it, then don't play", I think the people who take issue about the game's problems fundamentally like the game and care about the game, and they have hope that SE is going to fix the game and improve it to stay fun. Obviously if people didn't think the problems had a chance of being fixed, then they'd stop playing (as many have). I still have faith that SE is going to fix things, but it's depressing when in the time since CoP came out, a game like EQ would have already put out twice as much content and be onto a new expansion. FFXI basically rescued SE from the awful financial mistakes they had made with FF:Spirits Within; I don't think it's too unreasonable to ask them to put a little more effort into their game.

[Aratharn]

Then why don't you just be patient and see what they end up doing with Sea? It's pretty obvious, being the capital of the gods and an uncapped area, that they have plans to put some end-game stuff in... they're just doing it THEIR way (slow and steady) and not YOUR way (want everything right now, right away)

Don't get me wrong, I'm just as disappointed as you all that we have to wait yet again for another update, but I'm willing to be patient.

IMO, there is a difference between content being difficult and just being plain tedious. There is nothing "difficult" about relic upgrade save getting the attestation and getting the fragment.

That's why there is what... less than 10? people across ALL SERVERS that have a fully upgraded weapon?

The rest of it can be accomplished by someone who RMTs 100 million gil and just buys up currency whenever they see it. The actual difficult components of relic can be accomplished within a week

I dunno about your server but what you're saying is near impossible in my opinion. For someone to upgrade a relic within a week? You're talkin about thousands of currency and unless you have lines mules on Bahamut that are just filled with Currency for sale in Jeuno you're not going to find that much to buy, ever. Maybe after a year or so of farming Jeuno for currency maybe... but 1 week...

Anyways - I'm not trying to argue just to argue, it's just you're repeating yourselves about content (as much as I'm repeating my points of views) and they need more HNM's and etc etc - when events are unfolding to do just that... imagine if sea (when finally fully released) is anything like sky - I'm sure they know what they're doing and will release enough to keep people content, for a little while at least. Soon as something prooves a little difficult or has a low drop rate or whatever, we'll see the "FUCK YOU SE" posts and "waaaah waaaah" posts soon after :D

[Dethsbane]

I like to shout "FUCK YOU SE" when someone outlots me in Dynamis if thats of any relevance.

[layoneil]

Then why don't you just be patient and see what they end up doing with Sea?

we are patient, if we weren't patient we'd have quit.

patient does not equal "STFU suck on your thumb"

It's pretty obvious, being the capital of the gods and an uncapped area, that they have plans to put some end-game stuff in... they're just doing it THEIR way (slow and steady) and not YOUR way (want everything right now, right away)

that's a load of BS.

2 missions from Feb-Apr is not slow and steady, 2 missions in 2 months is borderline incompetence.

if we wanted "everything right now, right away", at the end of the first Sealion's Den BC, we would've quit and said "we bought the expansion, why are all the missions not in there?"

we didn't quit, we didn't say that. we accepted it as fact that even with an expansion some things have to be released over time.

but Chapter 8 is taking more than 4 months to release, if you're in the working world and you produce that slowly, that's unacceptable.

Don't get me wrong, I'm just as disappointed as you all that we have to wait yet again for another update, but I'm willing to be patient.

again, what about complaining = impatient?

That's why there is what... less than 10? people across ALL SERVERS that have a fully upgraded weapon?

there's less than 10 across all servers because of the STUPID 72 hour lockout on Dynamis they put in manually, the low drop rate of 100 bills they put in, the high currency cost of the later upgrades they put in.

what's the point of making content only 1 person can experience every 6 months? isn't that a waste of resources?

they create these false road blocks for Relics because there isn't enough content, the FFXI world wouldn't end if they took out the time block.

why do they not reward accomplishment?

Dynamis NMs should have a higher drop rate for AF2 than regular mobs but they don't. aren't NMs harder than regular mobs? doesn't it take more to kill NMs than regular mobs?

killing Angra Manyu isn't easy, shouldn't it have higher drop rates for AF2 or Currency than that first orc that pops?

the only one that works better is Xarcabard, there are NMs that have higher AF drop rates, not 100% drop rates but higher, there's a boss that has some really sweet drops.

why does all the lower Dynamis not use that model?

is there something fundamentally wrong with rewarding accomplishment?

and they need more HNM's and etc etc - when events are unfolding to do just that... imagine if sea (when finally fully released) is anything like sky -

the question is the speed at which they do it, why are they so incessantly slow?

I'm sure they know what they're doing and will release enough to keep people content, for a little while at least.

if they really did, there wouldn't be so many complaints.

the fear is they don't know what they are doing, that their priorities are f'ed up.

do we really need to pose a Mannequin more than a 3rd mission to do in Chapter 8?

[Not Kuno]

Thus, proving again, why Sendoh is FFXI Player +1.

[Hirronimus]

Wasn't projected longevity of FFXI, 5 years from the Japanese release date?

[Dethsbane]

If you notice, alot of those that do the complaining are end game players. Reached 75, killed almost all the HNM available and have RoZ and CoP done. These are the same people sho feel they are getting shafted with crappy updates. I don't believe that SE has their priorities wrong. The have to try to include content like posable mannequins and certain festival type events for those who can not participate in CoP. At least as far as Chapter 8. Remember, they have a duty to keep everyone happy, not just the end game folks. I'm sure there is a statistic somewhere showing that there are more low level players then end game. In order to keep everyone happy, they try to throw a bone to everyone.

What I keep thinking is that CoP wasn't meant to be released. As you can see, the content and story isn't finished and I think it was hastily pushed out to stem the exodus caused by WoW, or the potential of loss those players. Just like how their recruitment programs or welcome home programs of late. The know people have left and trying to woo some business back.

[Nermal]

There is point to throwing the lower levels a bone. That said you have the people have spent the most amount of time getting to end game just to find out there is absolutely no room for them. On our server there is 1 NA that has full Koenig, not even a second one that is even close as of now honestly. You know how he got the full Koenig? They stole KB from a JP LS at 1% HP to get his final abjuration, honestly not the best way to go about it. That said there have been three NA kills of KB on our server, cause he is the most camped of all the HQ pops. First time it was because of a wipe at around 2-3% and they just got lucky and cleaned up the mess. Second time a LS was trying to hold KB, waiting for help, there PLD died, but they had a mage there, one LS claimed stealing lots of drama, even more so after they found out Defending Ring dropped. Third time was the Koenig Legs with the theft at 1%.

This whole story isn't to trash anyone, notice the lack of names of player or LS. The point is the content is tough for NAs, so we have Sky, and hoped for Sea. It gets extremly disappointing that you spent all this time to get to a point where you can actually have a chance to experience something new, with just rewards which the new wyrms yet to give, only to find a magically locked door at the end of the path. Perhaps they add gods in the next update to Sea, at this rate I obviously wouldn't hold my breath.

Patience is one thing, watching a company that released a product far to earlier then it was ready to try and stop the bleeding of people leaving is another. The BCNMs they added were a good start to eliminating some problems, but even with them the rewards at times don't justify the trouble, but atleast it is a move in the right direction. I quit because of work, and got tired of end game drama. It doesn't mean that I didn't enjoy the game, but there are obviously problems with the way they have structured the release of CoP.

[layoneil]

I don't believe that SE has their priorities wrong. The have to try to include content like posable mannequins and certain festival type events for those who can not participate in CoP. At least as far as Chapter 8. Remember, they have a duty to keep everyone happy, not just the end game folks. I'm sure there is a statistic somewhere showing that there are more low level players then end game. In order to keep everyone happy, they try to throw a bone to everyone.

i'm not saying they shouldn't do stuff for low level players but how many low level players have Mannequins? the Mannequin pose quest is in Tavnazian Safehold, prices for Mannequin pieces go somewhere around 500k each.

Mannequins is not a common item every low level player has, it's a luxury item for people with gil, or huge interest in quest.

i know they have statistics, i'd be shocked to see that the statistics of Mannequin owners outnumber Lv 75 players.

What I keep thinking is that CoP wasn't meant to be released. As you can see, the content and story isn't finished and I think it was hastily pushed out to stem the exodus caused by WoW, or the potential of loss those players. Just like how their recruitment programs or welcome home programs of late. The know people have left and trying to woo some business back.

if this is true, than it further shows they might not know what they are/were doing.

[Aratharn]

I was gonna reply but it's no use.

SE is so abusive to it's players in your eyes and nothing anyone says, outside your own circle of friends or LS, is going to change your perspective.

As I mentioned in a similair thread about this elsewhere, they didn't release gods, they only added a small installment to CoP mission, boo hoo, there we got that out the way, now let's move on.

[berticus]

now let's move on.

I would, but there's just nothing to move on to.

I really admire your spirit of patience, but mine has been fading fast, mostly because:

For the currently available stuff, we've beaten it to a pulp and are tired of the repetition (sky), don't care about keeping getting AF2 for newer people and newer jobs (Dynamis, and I'm not speaking for myself I really want to keep doing it. the over 75 people who have taken at least 2 pieces of AF2 from wiffleball and quit speak differently though), or don't feel new stuff produces juice that's worth the squeeze (wyrms - "There's more efficient use of our time"). 3 kings doesn't really fall into my category of 'currently available stuff' because we cannot fight them, because we cannot claim them, because.. back to what's realistic.

So the problem is a mesh of bad attitudes/square's incompetence. As for square, look at Dynamis and relic weapons. I don't know this as a fact but I think I'd be safe in saying those few people who have final relic do so because they purchased the currency with gil. At 300 currency per run, which is a pretty high average, 1 year straight of runs with no cancellations would get you enough currency to upgrade one relic weapon. But, if they took off the lockout (this would require making dynamis a true instance, instead of just a zone that's restricted to 1 LS at a time (why the fuck didn't they do this in the first place )), added new more difficult objectives aside from clearing which earned you a better drop rate of AF2/currency, or just something to make dynamis a little more dynamic - then I think people's attitudes would change about hating dynamis. Add valuable loot to Tiamat, we might be getting somewhere. Why should killing KB with 10 people in 1 hour with no trouble and no death be more rewarding than killing Tiamat in 4 hours with 40 people with insane strategic concentration and lots of death and effort?

I, like a lot of people who have posted, am probably in it for the long haul and am willing to wait for appetizing new content. However, I felt the same way 6 months ago, and so far I have waited on nothing. I hope in 6 months the same thing hasn't happened again.

[Aratharn]

Excellent points.

As great as this game is, it has to have it's weak points, which I believe you pointed out. I dunno I just don't put as much effort into examining their faults, cause like many people I play this game to have fun - and it gives me that. I don't expect them to be perfect on every level, which they most certainly aren't.



Edit: That's what I'm really tryin to convey in my posts... is that SE has done a great job with this game OVERALL that I just wish people wouldn't focus so heavily on the few flaws they were BOUND to have (no one is perfect)

[layoneil]

As great as this game is, it has to have it's weak points, which I believe you pointed out. I dunno I just don't put as much effort into examining their faults

i don't do that in game, it's pretty much only out of game that this stuff comes up.

That's what I'm really tryin to convey in my posts... is that SE has done a great job with this game OVERALL that I just wish people wouldn't focus so heavily on the few flaws they were BOUND to have (no one is perfect)

but this is the whole point of message boards, make a topic singing their praises and see the responses you get.

[Aratharn]

I was gonna reply but it's no use.

SE is so abusive to it's players in your eyes and nothing anyone says, outside your own circle of friends or LS, is going to change your perspective.

As I mentioned in a similair thread about this elsewhere, they didn't release gods, they only added a small installment to CoP mission, boo hoo, there we got that out the way, now let's move on.

[Nermal]

There is no point to singing the praises, even if deserved. If you never point out the flaws within a game there is a good chance that the company will never get around to fixing, or even tweaking these things. Even on a unoffical website as this, conversation relating to things that you think need fixed are good. It in no way expresses that we hate SE, or even that a vast majority of the people are prepared to quit over it. It is merely stating what they think is wrong, and attempting to come up with things they view as a positive step to fix said problem. Perhaps when people agree, or come up with an idea, that sounds like it will work you can forward it to SE, and maybe just maybe they will actually implement it. Just like I like competition to increase creativity and push for new exciting things, negative views on something that can change do the same thing. Not everyone is trying to bash the game into oblivion, just trying to come up with things that may even improve the game.

[layoneil]

I was gonna reply but it's no use.

SE is so abusive to it's players in your eyes and nothing anyone says, outside your own circle of friends or LS, is going to change your perspective.

As I mentioned in a similair thread about this elsewhere, they didn't release gods, they only added a small installment to CoP mission, boo hoo, there we got that out the way, now let's move on.

i guess some people do like repeating the same thing over and over that adds absolutely nothing of value whatsoever.

[Kayos]

Everyone here has made great points. The game has its strengths and weaknesses. I think putting abj. in KS99 IS a viable option, as long as the drop rates are low. Right now on Asura there is 0 NA pld w/ full Keonig. There are only 2 NA w/ Keonig body. Many of the older pld like myself get a little frustrated at this. My LS could easily kill Nid/Aspid/KB but we have only claimed Aspid 1 time in a year (and killed it...shura ...) and never claimed KB or Nid.

My proposal to SE (and the issue that bothers me the most) isnt the drop rates that suck, its the drop %. Couldnt SE with all its available resources do a survey of all lvl 75 jobs and determine what % of ppl had which job? THEN adjust the drop rates on these HQ HNM accordingly. I mean is there really a lacking of Hecatomb on servers? Are there really that many thfs? I guarentee there is about 5x more plds on servers then thfs and 10x more mages (who can wear zenith) then thfs. So why does that crap armor drop so damn frequently. Sure war and some other jobs can wear Heca, but comeone SE get a clue. Im not saying make them a ??? spawn but at least SE could have a fooking clue who plays what job and the % of those gear that people need.

[THEPANDA]

I love the egocentricity of those that think just because they have the latest version of FastFingers, that they are somehow entitled to be the only ones that get things. This isn't about making everyone get things. This is able giving everyone a CHANCE. Something you cleverly have posted about, yet... are lying.

Say Linkshell A shows up to camp every single day, losing every single day because they play fair. Linkshell B shows up every day, and wins claim every day.... but bot/areJP(don't give me BS, some people know things). How is it right for LS A to get absolutely nothing even though they put just as much effort as LS B? This is a -GAME-. It is supposed to be about what you are capable of doing, and being rewarded for that effort. LS A is perfectly capable of killing, yet don't have that fabled chance.

??? popped kings... How does this in any way have anything to do with making it easier? Just gives them that chance you've falsely touted on and on about. Does it mean they get any drops? No. Lower the drop rate to .01% for all I care, still makes your e-penis feel big to think you're the only ones on the server entitled to good gear. (It's seen with r0's comments. Some things they don't need, but they'd do anything to keep PV from getting it. :O Yes, they really said something along those lines.. Granted... before PV became extremely inactive.) However, I completely disagree with ??? pops. It does make it cheaper, but not for the same reason I know you have. I think SOME effort must be put into getting claim, but getting claim should never be the hardest thing about the fight. The FIGHT is what should make the drops worth it.

That being said.... Tiamat, Jorm, Vrtra.... come on. How can anyone possibly say that 2-4 hours fighting..... to get a lousy fire crystal is worth it? And big whoop... the best drop off another is a useless body for an almost equally useless job? The fight is extremely hard. The drops should be extremely worthwhile. This SHOULD be fixed.

What I propose, that appeases everyone on the topic of the 3 kings: The spawn is no longer limited to 21-24 hours. :O What?! No more spamming every 30 min??? Yes. I'm not saying make it 2hrs, 4hrs, 6hrs, whatever. Have these NQ/HQ only able to pop once every 24hrs, however, not a strict timer. (Strict Timer Example: Pops, then is able to pop 1hr from time of death. My Timer Example: Instead, a new day must begin before the timer begins. Meaning that every 24hrs, SE decides on what time zone counts as a new day GMT, JPT, EST, etc., the HNM will pop. But only once in that 24hr time period.)

This fixes: Any LS holding an HNM. Doesn't matter if you hold it, it can spawn at any time the next day. This makes it fair to players from ALL countries. EU/NA/Asian... Doesn't matter, you all have equal chance. This fixes the bot activation every 30 minutes. No longer will you sit there with horrendous lag in cramped zones with some people you hate. It becomes a race to get there... I'd say a race is more fun than spamming. In addition to the spawning once per day, at anytime, there will be no more NQ for X days then chance of HQ after that. There will always be a chance of HQ, although a fairly small fraction... say... ~20%. Could pop twice in a row, could pop never. This keeps everyone on their toes, and ready for anything. Does this not seem more FUN to you?

Those 2 very simple to implement fixes in no way cheapens anything. Doesn't make the items more prevalent. It just makes the drops what they're about.... The fight. If you disagree, you only prove my point. That you're only cared about what you get, and want no one else to get anything..... which makes you only about the drops... and a hypocrite.

Now... With this change, another change would have to happen. If these things could pop at ANY time during the day, people will have large chunks of the day that they'll spend doing nothing. Yes, I know some people only show up for 9hrs worth of camps and then log out/go idle. Well, guess what! Why not add other HNMs that spawn on the same premise, and drop say........ dynamis currency, lesser abj parts, or just things for money(hides, cloths, etc.). This allows people to have something to do all the time, and make the game about fun, the fight... and not about whether Jim's computer is better than Hoarang's. I put the dynamis currency there because I do feel the restriction on dynamis is a good thing. Yes, it limits the relic weapons, but the premise is a good one. Allows people to gather at the same point, make time for it twice a week, be prepared, etc. Upping drop rate, or making some new HNMs that drop currency would be a good addition to making it easier to obtain the currency. Or maybe making it an ENM that you can only participate in if you actively go to dynamis(as can be easily detected by the game if you're on the timer or not). This last minute brainstormed fix would fix Captain Penis Envy's excuse that people wouldn't have to go to dynamis to get their weapons upgraded. Not like most people that upgrade do anyway. Which could lead to another implementation: you cannot buy/sell/trade currency unless you are on a dynamis timer. Good bye RMT relic people.

Simple fixes, makes the game more fair for all. But this entire thread has been about what's your definition of fair.

Fair to some is that I pay to play, I should get something for it, and get it easily.
Fair to others is that I win claim most of the time, and I think I'm better than everyone so nothing should be done to fix this. That way my ls and only my ls gets things. If other people do, there's something wrong.

Fair: You work, you kill, you get the drop. Nowhere in that does latency or bots come into play. Right now, they are the only thing that influences who gets what, thus something should be done to remove latency from being an issue.

Sorry if this is borderline flame, but some things I've seen from Ara have been so ego driven, and nothing about what he claims. My offered solutions to this problem (yes, it's a problem) are as I see it fool proof. I'd like to see if anyone else thinks they would make the game better. However, if you wish to respond to whether it would fix the problem of latency, which this thread is about, you MUST remember: A) Who cares if a JP gets it? They have every right to get an NM. B) Who cares if YOU don't get it? Other people do too.

Okay, I'm done. Discuss(and if Ara wants to respond to the flame portions, he can send me a PM).

[mdn]

the whole concept behind this thread is just stupid :l

SE made different types of endgame.
1) sky is pretty laid back, popped gods. players are able to gather, prepare and not worry about competing. there are some really good things dropped in sky and a lot of people are running around with them.

2) ground is competitive, have to claim the NM etc. this is where the BEST stuff is and that's where everyone seems to think the problem lies.

if ground gods were popped or 2 hour spawns then the BEST items in the game wouldn't be rare anymore. go to sky and farm it for 2000 osodes if you don't like to go to camps. not everyone is entitled to own a koenig body or ridills or defending rings. people have to work for it and work REALLY fucking hard. i don't see how anyone can claim aratharn is ego driven; he's driven by the desire to work to get people in his linkshell what items they want. he puts tons of time in and runs a successful linkshell because of it

SE developed a system that rewards dedication and hard work. the ONLY reason people want a popped system is so they can all get those dalmaticas and koenig bodies. well if you could all pop nidhogg then you'd be complaining about how every faggot on the server has the same body and they need to make something new for people to get, something more rare. did people ever consider that maybe if they can't claim KB or Nidhogg then they aren't good enough to own one of the pieces of armor they drop? claiming is part of the game too.