Petition

[berticus]

SE developed a system that rewards dedication and hard work.

the point of this thread is to refute that. people who have dedication and put in lots of hard work but don't have the ping to back it up don't get shit on the ground. there is no fair claim system and if there were, people who complained about not getting pops would be pussies and then the hard-work argument would work.

the people writing in this thread, who aren't those types of pussies, aren't averse to competition, theyre people who just want a fair chance. if we were camping nidhogg vs another JP LS and had a 50% chance of claiming it giving everyone was focusing as hard as they could on the claim, i could care less if we lost because i'd know there would be another great chance. but it isn't like that, at least on this server. any claim won by NAs is complete luck or done by JPs in their LS, or something else totally unrelated to effort

[THEPANDA]

So, anyone want to actually read my post before making a half-assed reply to it?

A) Never said popped. PS: I said the opposite.
B) Never said 2HR. PS: I said 24hr, but at anytime in any given 24hr period.

Read before you reply. Thank you.


I guess I'll reiterate, since it's more likely they'll read this post and not the other. What about my changes affects the number of people that have something? It doesn't. It will still only pop once every 24 hour period. There will be the same number of monsters killed a year. It just removes the spamming for claim portion of the equation. Because spamming for claim has nothing to do with skill, and everything to do with your computer/ping. You are a liar if you think otherwise.

So please, once you read my post, please tell me how this affects anything negtively. You still have to rush your LS there with the right people as soon as you learn that it pops. Which do you think is more fun, hitting whatever ACTool button starts your macro, or racing to get there in time? Simple answer. In fact, a race to get the people there for claim takes more skill than hitting F11. So how does this make it less skillful? It doesn't.

I know this post isn't exactly fair to you, considering you obviously did not read it through the first time, but all your points are dull and meaningless. Koenig bodies will still be rare. Dalmaticas, etc. will be as rare as they always were. The only difference is, every single problem related to the kings will be fixed. Having problems being GMed because you take too long? It's no longer a grief tactic because it won't affect it's spawn time tomorrow. There will be NO MORE "wah you killed it at 5pm est, you're helping it fall back into JP time" crap on FFXIO. No more bot accusations, in fact... won't be any need for them at all. It will practically ELIMINATE 90% of the drama involved with the system in place now. Considering you try your best to stir up all that you can, this would be one reason you wouldn't like this plan. There goes most of the lame forum threads that you oh so love to participate in. How is this a problem?

The only problems come from elitist ego driven people that think that only NA's or only their LS have a right to claim things, and anything that would hamper that is bad. Wake up and smell the STFU, you don't. People work just as hard, and ping should never stand between them and the gear they deserve for their hard work. (provided they can kill the NM)

[Hirronimus]

Hey Panda, you what your post reminds me off? Nazis. While your points maybe valid, the way you talk as if you trying to enforce your views on other people. If you want people to discuss what you posted, leave some room to have a say, don't be: "This is how I see and it's final, if you say otherwise you're a hypocrite and an asshole."

I don't know who you are and what server you come from, but by the looks of your thread you trying to incite some sort of flame war by means of using this discussion.

I doubt that SE doesn't pay attention to what people say. Any company that has a business plan laid out for their project, always willing to alter the course if it will bring more profit, and in such case apeasing the gamers that have hard time attainting key portions of this game. I have faith that they /will/ do something.

The latency issue Bert always refering to, will never be fixed, and that is something we should get used to living with. It's not about them being Japanese and having preferential treatment, it's about the fact that the game is Japanese and was released on Japanese servers, which were placed in Japan. NA release is an offshoot. Was it even in the business plan to relase it in NA and other parts of the world before Japan's relase came out?

Everyone of us sees the issue differently. And I think that's something SE should be aware off. I personally sent quiet a few suggestions, which some as a matter of fact have been implemented. No, I'm not responsible for Mannequin Pose crap, I think that was Avve and his Mithra fetish, but I did suggest about monsters being fished up claimed would keep people from having calling GM all the time after gil sellers would steal your fished up Mantas.

So instead of posting here on forums bitching and moaning, you could simple take 5 mins, same 5 mins it would take you post here, and make a suggestion e-mail to SE development team.

Anyways, peace. :wink:

[THEPANDA]

I'm trying to enforce that people read what I say before they reply with something. When you get mdn's post about things I didn't say, you're obviously dealing with someone that read "i don't like how it is now" and made up things I might have said. So if I'm a nazi because I'd like people to discuss what I actually said, sure thing. Am I nazi because I want everyone to think like me? No. However, there is almost nothing in what I propose that affects the game in a negative way. The only thing it will affect, is those players that have ego problems. Meh.

[Zildjian]

yo panda

like or dislike :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/3..._rabbit300.jpg

[THEPANDA]

Sorry, no bunnies for me; I'm on a strict bamboo diet. I can't conceive of dating a lettuce eater.

[Zildjian]

k youre going to hell. nazi....

[THEPANDA]

I'm not a nazi! I just believe that rabbits are the spawn of Satan and should be exterminated by way of gas chamber or some other form of mass execution.

Oh... I.. nevermind, I've said too much.

[Zildjian]

you just wait until i get home from the real world


you big balled bitch!

[Zigfried]

hey zildjian. wheres my sandwich woman?!?


on a side note, I agreed with Ara and mdn. We may be in different LSs and we may have our differences but I respect them for the hard work they put in to get the gear they have. If you could just run around and pop Nidhogg or KB every day with no luck involved on the pull what makes the rare items that drop rare?

[Nermal]

Actually I don't think most want them to be forced spawned in this argument. I think what most of us agree they should do is heavily vary the spawn times, get rid of the 21-24 hour time restraints that just beg for botting, and latency concerns, which they can not fix. If you make it so it can pop ANYTIME within a 24 hour period you make it a raise to get enough people out there when he spawns, and you make it more challenging, even for JPs who won't be able to merely take solice in the fact that they have a superior ping to the server on pulls. Would it really be so bad that you don't have 40+ people in Behemoth's Domain await King Behemoth to show himself? Instead having one person seeing that he is up and trying to get his LS down there and ready to fight.

[layoneil]

If you could just run around and pop Nidhogg or KB every day with no luck involved on the pull what makes the rare items that drop rare?

there are a million different ways to maintain the rarity of the items that have nothing to do "luck involved on the pull".

[Zildjian]

Zigfried has diseases...

and he got them from Shoes.

[geno]

What I've seen Ara, and some other PO members (and others also), point out is that, many of the ones complaining want to make these easier to obtain. That is not the case. Most just want to make them POSSIBLE to obtain. This can seem like a farfetched comment, because honestly going from impossible to possible seems like going from hard to easy. It really isn't, and there is an important distinction between the two.

Ara mentioned that if you work hard (as his LS did in claiming and holding Behemoth for 8 hours to give NAs a better chance, which I can sort of commend you on), your chances of luck finding you increases. The biggest error in this thinking, is that servers are so very different, the proposed solutions have entirely different outcomes in both servers. In claiming and holding Behemoth for 8 hours on my server (Shiva), little to nothing would be gained. If it was day 1 that we did this, we may gain a behemoth hide or two the next few days, because JP LSs may be at other big 3 camps (rare but plausible). But there is absolutely no change at all in our competition levels come KB time. The same players will arrive in the same numbers, no matter what. I know this for sure, because we have attempted to do so with Adamantoise in the past. Little, (or more accurately, nothing) was gained in doing so. Come Aspi time, the same LS was there to get it again.

The simple fact of the matter is, working hard won't help the situation at all for a portion (as of now I have no idea of it is a majority or a minority, but from the way it appears, I would claim it a majority) of end-game players. We can get up at 6AM in the morning NA time, and camp Aspidochelone. But we will still see the usual JP crew sitting in the corner. We can hold adamantoise for 8 hours into (over a period of different trial days) the worst possible time for JP players to be online at. But we will still see the usual JP crew sitting in the corner. Nothing we can do will change that fact.

In all instances of HQ claims on Shiva, some high luck factor was involved. I can still count these claims on one hand.
#1- KB- We camped early in the day for us, a day after an update I believe (coincidental, that I think most bots don't work by the day after an update?), with a small team, and outclaimed a (from the way I heard it) small portion of the usual campers. I believe Nid or something popped at the same time. This was, and still is, the only instance of us winning a pull, in the probably hundreds of camps (behemot, faf, or ada) we've been at. We killed it, and got Koenig legs and defending ring.
#2- Aspi- Months later, we camped Aspi on day 5, DURING a KB camp (i think around 5 AM JP time). The aformention 'monopoly' LS was at the KB camp expecting it to pop. Aspi popped, behemoth popped. We killed aspi and got Crimson body.
#3- Aspi- Couple weeks later, a JP LS, (the second strongest on the server) was camping Aspi, while many of us were doing other things (was a bad time for us, were going to enter dynamis not too long from the time of the camp). This was during BOTH other HQ camps and pops (yes, all 3 Kings popped same day). I was the only one from my LS at the pop, going to get ToD. Aspi popped, the JP LS didn't pull it for some reason (I have no fucking clue why.. maybe AFKers.). I told my LS to come, they dropped what they were doing, a RNG entered the zone, shadowbound it right before they could do anything, and more people entered the zone, just in time to save eachother and kill it. Got Koenig shoes.

And that's all. No other claims at all. A couple players have bought some of the abjurations (from memory; 2 Koenig legs, 1Adaman legs, 1 Adaman body) from the JP LS. They do not, and from what I can tell, never will sell Dalmatica, Koenig Body, and most other Abjurations. To this day, no NA has a full set of ANY abjuration. To say that no NA has worked hard enough for it, would be a complete lie as well. Some players, I would dare say, work even harder then many of the LSs on servers such as Midgar. Have you a single player in your LS that attending every Fafnir (yes every single fucking one) hunt for 4 months? Whether or not his LS was there, he was there. Have you players that would CAMP a kraken club, and when it finally drops, sell it just for the CHANCE of buying one of a Dalmatica abj, after attending most every Nid/aspi camp to build image in the JP minds, only to be shot down because the LS would rather a Lv24 SMN with no plans of leveling it get an A: abjuration body?

If Ara, or anyone else thinks winning a pull from JP is not only possible, but even fair, then I would dare you take make a mule on Shiva and level to 5war. I'll supply a WP (the kind with the mandragora hats :wink: ) and enough gil and power leveling and escorts to do it. Maybe then you could see the difference in our servers.

Also, killing the 3 new dragons as an alternative is a bit of a joke also. Last time we tried to fight Tiamat (a member literally SAW it pop), we all RUSHED out to AttohwaCsm, didn't matter how many people we had, we went. We would have had enough to kill it. By the time we were ready to pull, we were setting up alliances. The JP LS (most of which weren't online 20 minutes ago) all strolled into the area at the same time, forcing us to pull without even setting up teams. We pulled, we died, they claimed, they killed. This was one of their slowest reaction entries to Tiamat area. Jormugand, we have fought before (not won), and honestly, other then the title mostly, the rewards just aren't really worth the trouble. This doesn't mean we won't kill it. And when we do kill it, I don't think I'll even feel the same. The JPs don't even care to kill it mostly. They do kill Vrtra occasionally. Its a 1.5-2hr fight for them, and they use probably the same ammount of ppl as they do for Tiamat, because they've had the opportunity to fight it many times. I don't know how long until this becomes a routine kill as Tiamat is for them, but I don't estimate there being too much time.

I guess the real point i'm trying to make, is that ANYONE who thinks there is some sort of general solution to these problems (yes problems), then they are simply ignoring the plights of those around them, and not acknowledging the real differences in our servers. You can propose alternatives all you want, because I do them. If I'm at every Fafnir hunts for 3 hours every day, even if we never win the pull, then how is that any different? I have a Kirin's Osode, and I'm extremely happy I do. I know there are many people out there with one now, but that doesn't change the fact I still think its really cool. With more time, comes more drops, going to more people. No matter how you look at it, that will happen regardless.

For example:
SE Limits 1 Dalmatica drop PER week, NO MATTER WHAT.
They put similar limits on every other abjuration from ground NMs.
This doesn't really change the current system, though its probably an understatement. More then 1 probably drops per week.
Now imagine they impliment these other suggestions. Put Dalma in KS99 battles. Put new 18 man lv75 ENMs that are far harder then any NMs out there, that drop it. Let it drop off 3 new wyrms. Hell you can fucking make it drop off Bubbly Bernie for all I care (joke). That limit could STILL BE IN PLACE. One Dalma per week, many new places to get it, taking far more dedication to get it (probably more then it should). How is this any different? How are we going to see every fucking fag walk around with them now? the only reason we would, is because the people that got them would actually use it, and not put it in their mannequin next to Koenig body and Adaman body. If i thought there was a way possible, then I would do all in my power to get it. I would farm gil to buy someone else's use of KSs to fight for a Dalma. In times thats not happening, I'd be farming KSs myself for it. What's wrong with dedicated people reaping the rewards?

(I know this post is long, if you don't read it all, I don't really care. It's nice to be able to put feelings into words though)
In short, I would like to reiterate, that I don't want things to be easy, as I'm sure most people don't.

I just want it to be possible.

[Sadler]

Fuck that geno... im not reading that lol


Id rather have a big burly man bend me over and take my anal virginity.

[Aratharn]

We can hold adamantoise for 8 hours into (over a period of different trial days) the worst possible time for JP players to be online at. But we will still see the usual JP crew sitting in the corner. Nothing we can do will change that fact.

Out of curiousity, have you actually done this and tried it?

In all instances of HQ claims on Shiva, some high luck factor was involved. I can still count these claims on one hand.
#1- KB- We camped early in the day for us, a day after an update I believe (coincidental, that I think most bots don't work by the day after an update?), with a small team, and outclaimed a (from the way I heard it) small portion of the usual campers. I believe Nid or something popped at the same time. This was, and still is, the only instance of us winning a pull, in the probably hundreds of camps (behemot, faf, or ada) we've been at. We killed it, and got Koenig legs and defending ring.

Wow! Great drops there, can't believe you can complain about that.

#2- Aspi- Months later, we camped Aspi on day 5, DURING a KB camp (i think around 5 AM JP time). The aformention 'monopoly' LS was at the KB camp expecting it to pop. Aspi popped, behemoth popped. We killed aspi and got Crimson body.
#3- Aspi- Couple weeks later, a JP LS, (the second strongest on the server) was camping Aspi, while many of us were doing other things (was a bad time for us, were going to enter dynamis not too long from the time of the camp). This was during BOTH other HQ camps and pops (yes, all 3 Kings popped same day). I was the only one from my LS at the pop, going to get ToD. Aspi popped, the JP LS didn't pull it for some reason (I have no fucking clue why.. maybe AFKers.). I told my LS to come, they dropped what they were doing, a RNG entered the zone, shadowbound it right before they could do anything, and more people entered the zone, just in time to save eachother and kill it. Got Koenig shoes.

This would never happen on Midgard. All 3 kings ALWAYS have competition on our server. There would NEVER be an uncontested Aspid. But regardless, off 3 king fights you got THE most rare drops from them. Defending Ring, Keonig Feet, and Crimson Body. My LS has it the other way around, we have fought 2 KB's and 1 Aspid ever, our drops? M. Abj: Legs, A. Abj: Feet, and D. Abj: Feet. Out of 3 fights we got the worse drop 2 times. So consider yourself a lil lucky there

Some players, I would dare say, work even harder then many of the LSs on servers such as Midgar. Have you a single player in your LS that attending every Fafnir (yes every single fucking one) hunt for 4 months? Whether or not his LS was there, he was there. Have you players that would CAMP a kraken club, and when it finally drops, sell it just for the CHANCE of buying one of a Dalmatica abj, after attending most every Nid/aspi camp to build image in the JP minds, only to be shot down because the LS would rather a Lv24 SMN with no plans of leveling it get an A: abjuration body?

Nope, try the last 7-8 months everyday the same people showing up to camps. And you're walkin on the line now, you have NO RIGHT to make that statement. The reason why I argue this petition is BECAUSE we've had to go through so much and work so hard everyday to be where we are today, the only LS I know that understands this is Rzero. Having to go through long periods of losing pull after pull, yet having the same people show up day after day only to FINALLY find a way to win (and NO it's not fucking bots, if anyone thinks bots win pulls you have no clue how this game works) So please, don't judge the fact that we win pulls that it means we don't have to work as hard as you. We don't just decide when we wanna go to an unclaimed Fafnir and kill it at our leisure. We're there everyday, competing, and have earned every single kill we've got.

If Ara, or anyone else thinks winning a pull from JP is not only possible, but even fair, then I would dare you take make a mule on Shiva and level to 5war. I'll supply a WP (the kind with the mandragora hats :wink: ) and enough gil and power leveling and escorts to do it. Maybe then you could see the difference in our servers.

I never once said it was fair (read my posts, I've said more than once JP's have a huge advantage due to latency, since that is what winning pulls is all about) so once again, you're misinformed.

Also, killing the 3 new dragons as an alternative is a bit of a joke also. Last time we tried to fight Tiamat (a member literally SAW it pop), we all RUSHED out to AttohwaCsm, didn't matter how many people we had, we went. We would have had enough to kill it. By the time we were ready to pull, we were setting up alliances. The JP LS (most of which weren't online 20 minutes ago) all strolled into the area at the same time, forcing us to pull without even setting up teams. We pulled, we died, they claimed, they killed. This was one of their slowest reaction entries to Tiamat area.

Last Tiamat to pop on our server was while my LS was fighting Fafnir and barely 24 people total on LS and 16-18 in Dragon's Aery. Another LS was also going after it and we claimed Tiamat with 5 people in the zone and held until others got there. Not only that but it was night time (we were careful not to aggro a single Corse) and we aggro'd 2 Elementals. Ended up killing it and got Gaiters. So, no offense, but these days waiting to have all 25-35 of your people in zone and parties 100% perfect and ready to go - you gotta expect someone else to grab it in that time. I'm not trying to (as Panda would say) boost my own ego here, just giving you hope and let you know it is possible to claim Tiamat without 30+ as long as you have others on the way. If you have to claim low on numbers don't try to do any damage yet and just stay alive til the people who have tele'd, etc get there. Although if you have zero experience with Tiamat I can see where you wouldn't be prepared for this~

(I know this post is long, if you don't read it all, I don't really care. It's nice to be able to put feelings into words though)
In short, I would like to reiterate, that I don't want things to be easy, as I'm sure most people don't.

I just want it to be possible.

I think SE setting up a couple NA based servers would be the best solution to this issue rather than changing the way the game works.

Thanks Zigfried for the kind words. And who is The Panda? I assume someone on Midgard? Also someone from PlusOne? Since you guys have the tendency to go back and forth with each other (i.e. KI threads) in threads. Anyways, like I said, what I believe would be the best solution is setting up a couple NA servers and allowing server migration to these servers. This way they don't change the way the game is setup, and competition would be even for NA's.

[Daahan]

it says "roll" but it should really say "high"

[Not Kuno]

NA servers sound good but if they added one it would get gang-raped by pretty much everyone flocking to it. :X

[Aratharn]

NA servers sound good but if they added one it would get gang-raped by pretty much everyone flocking to it. :X

Yeah they would probably have to setup several.

[layoneil]

everything caused by latency can be patched in game for less cost to SE.

so financially, it makes no sense to have NA servers.

if they would even acknowledge these as problems in the first place.