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  1. #1

    Osode Being Taken from a HNM LS When Agreement In Place

    Hello FFXI Players! Greetings!

    I am posting this was the permission of Edward. I had talked to him briefly about the situation on our server of shiva. Many people from shiva come to frequent this forum. Not only that, but in many instances, complete unbiased parties may add good suggestion. I actually do not like posting this at all. I just would like for honesty and justice to be in place and for people to keep their word.


    This is the post:

    Hello many Shiva members.

    Many of you already know what this is about, Some of you do not.

    On Monday, some members left (list of about 10) Vindicated and created another beginning linkshell on a deceitful endeavor. That is not what this post is about. It’s their choice. That’s how it goes. We still have over 50 members and this event has pulled us even closer so that’s fine. It is clear that the people left want to be there for the right reasons and it brings unity.

    The ISSUE of this post:

    The conflict here lies: One of the members, Rokugen, actually did not leave until I believe Tuesday because he did not want to hand over the LS Kirin Osode.

    Our LS has a policy and stipulation, with Osode and Noble’s Tunic, it is the linkshell’s. This item is not ex/rare and can be sold. Anyone who wanted to be in line for any of these items have agreed to this. It is very clear on our forums about the rule, no loophole, no gray areas, no what if’s and no way around it. There is no fine print. Either you agree or you do not. But we expect you to be honorable and not be a thief. We expect someone to uphold their word.

    Rokugen, the samurai, has agreed to this a while back. In fact, he was one of the ones who were very strong on wanting to enforce it with our whms and noble’s tunic. We never have had a problem with untrustworthiness or theft as far as this goes in the past. All members have been honourable….except Rokugen. Because of his thieving actions, we will now have to change things.

    He has stated on teamspeak conversation and its recorded, I will upload if need be, “Screw my friends I want my baby!”

    Also many fraps have been taken of him saying that basically if he gave up the Osode that his “friends” in new LS will think (in summary) he is weak and being a pushover .

    This is not about weakness. This is not about anything else except Rokugen made an agreement- written agreement- and now he is going back on his word and stealing from the place it has always belonged to. In fact, the action he has taken has shown weakness. To do the right thing actually takes courage and honor.

    http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y123/g ... m/rok3.jpg
    The link up above I did edit out tells from other people- I did leave first letter visible so u will know that I did not edit Rokugen’s tells. This is a good illustration of what is going on and the attitude portrayed.

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/ ... C01499.jpg


    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/ ... C01508.jpg


    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/ ... C01509.jpg
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/ ... C01514.jpg


    He agreed to it knowingly.

    He admitted on Monday and Tuesday on teamspeak (and its recorded) that he knows its wrong.

    He admitted that it would be wrong if he walked off with it.

    But he did this anyway.

    He does not care that it is actually worse than Bobbyjai.

    Bobbyjai did what he did to a stranger.

    Rokugen did what he did to people he has known for a long time.

    This agreement is not based on anything of favortism, nepotism, or anything except the agreement itself. It became in place for a reason and was voted on. The people and person in question agreed to this.

    It’s very cut and dry, no ambiguous terms, gray area or negotiation.

    This is not about selfishness in the part of Vindicated.

    It has always and will always be a Vindicated item. He knows this and knew since day one.

    We are simply trying to get our item back.

    Rokugen, I know you will read this and I hope you do. You know full well what we talked about, and you know everything you stated. You said yourself it was wrong. You also stated that if someone else, a friend of yours, for example, got an item, and you were still in LS and he wanted to walk off with it—what would you say? You said- NO.

    So right there in its entirety shows that it is wrong and you think and said its wrong….unless its you.

    We want this over.

    Do you want this to continue??

    Just hand over the LS Osode, call it a day, and get it with you new LS.

    Have faith in them to do that for you since it is such a big drama.
    This item is a LS item. It never said Rokugen on it. (metaphor)

    Do the right thing. Why thieve from people who once trusted you?

    Comments on this situation on VnD forums are at

    http://shahlaffxi.proboards24.com/index ... ay&start=0

    If need be, there are more SS and also voice confession from Rokugen himself saying that it is wrong if he would leave and take it.

    It is a damn shame that it has to come to all forums in order to get any sign of justification of wrongdoing. People should know right and wrong and uphold their word. Simple agreement. No loopholes…..except the part of Rokugen not holding to his word and taking from Vindicated.


    Shahla

    Vindicated HNM/SKy LS on Shiva

    [/b]

  2. #2
    Physicist
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
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    Raineer Severus
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    Hyperion
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    Siren
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    Area 52

    I think it's pretty clear cut... I think drops like Osode and Shining Cloth should be LS property anyways, but the fact that you have it stated in your LS rules pretty much seals the deal.

    Unfortunately, not much you can do about it. If his new friends accept him as a thief, then I'm sure he'll stay that way.

  3. #3
    Relic Shield
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    it's a damn good thing you posted this here

  4. #4
    Chram
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    If he agreed to so many rules and, as you say, there are no grey areas or loopholes then he should give it back. However, outside of some drawn out pettiness, how you stand any chance of enforcing such an agreement I'm not quite sure. When I left my LS over a month ago my Kirin's Osode came with me and it was never questioned that I give it back but we also didn't have such tight rules in place.

  5. #5

    Ladies and gentlemen, displayed in this wonderfull showcase, in all it's glory, I present you:


    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .

    *Drum roll*

    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .

    HUMAN NATURE!


    Granted he sucks, but it sucks to be you also...

  6. #6
    The God Damn Kuno
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    You need an airplane ticket and a baseball bat. It's time to break some legs!

  7. #7
    Relic Shield
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drinhkinn
    HUMAN NATURE!
    It's very narrow-minded to assume that this alone is an example of human nature.

    One extremely small aspect of it? Ok.

    But Mother Theresa never did anything that wasn't outside of human nature either. It's just a popular excuse people use to assert that chaos/criminality/"every man for himself"/"survival of the fittest" is the "natural" state of humankind.

    Even insects cooperate and exhibit "selfless" acts

  8. #8
    Smells like Onions
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    lol shahla,
    u didn't have to post on every single board did u :/

  9. #9
    Sea Torques
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    Kirin's Osode's + Shining Cloth's drop like candy ~_~; Don't see why your LS needs such tight rules, I mean rules are rules so he should give it back, but imo a very stupid rule

  10. #10

    Call it however you like, that's what I call it.

    In my view, human nature is the most efficient random algorith ever created. Someone can be helping grannies crossing roads, and be stealing candies from kids in the meantime.

    Whatever.

    To me, the guy has no balls, a few peoples are beeing straight rude to him with threats if he doesn't keep it and he's a chiken.

    To each it's view i guess.

    Also:
    chaos/criminality/"every man for himself"/"survival of the fittest"
    Looks to me like the definition of Capitalism. Now how many countries live by that code? Seems general enought to me. And mother theresa is 1 among billions. Hardly a worthy example.

  11. #11

    LOL You guys crack me up. Too funny^^.

    To be honest, we really didn't think he would be untrustworthy. He was ambiguous in his actions many times but we didn't have a reason to distrust him or think of him as thieving.

    On Monday, he talked with me on teamspeak about 48 minutes on how he was conflicted but he says the item is his.

    For days, myself and other members and leaders have tried talking to him trying to make him see reason.

    Also, in response to one of your statements- yes the reason Osode has that guideline in our LS is because its worth 10 million on our server. How easy for it to be for someone to come in and then leave and sell it? Not only that but it takes a group of people to get this item- it cannot be soloed (although I am sure now Edward will try --- daredevil). We never had this problem before and we have been doing sky a long time. Its just very sad.

    btw- Quebec? je parle francais aussi^^. I am in Tampa though.

  12. #12

    Wow you're posting everywhere, even after you got your ass handed to you on the KI forums.

  13. #13

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahla
    btw- Quebec? je parle francais aussi^^. I am in Tampa though.
    Si t'habite moindrement près de Fort Lauderdale, ca explique tout.

  14. #14

    This how our LS handles things like this and mabye you should adopt it cause it's been working wonderfully for us.

    Shining cloth drops..sell and split...But a LS memeber who wants to buy it for a nobles may do so for a discount,but there had better be a Noble's on your back or you get the /boot.

    Kirin's Osode....given to people who can wear them and based on your LS item hunt particpation.Bottom line..we have 4 rangers and 1 monk and 1 bst and 1 warrior...so we need 7 of them

    Personly i think the whole "it's the LS's proporty" is BS,since ppl do pull stunts and the whole " i wanna wear it,it's my turn"..the idea is to pimp out your LS and make it strong to kill stronger mobs,not gonna get that way with 5 rangers/monks fight over 1 suit. Just my opinion,do what ya want.

  15. #15
    Black Belt
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paladin76
    Personly i think the whole "it's the LS's proporty" is BS,since ppl do pull stunts and the whole " i wanna wear it,it's my turn"..the idea is to pimp out your LS and make it strong to kill stronger mobs,not gonna get that way with 5 rangers/monks fight over 1 suit. Just my opinion,do what ya want.
    the idea of LS Property just means if you leave you're suppose to give it back and you're absolutely not allowed to sell it.

    passing it around between members is stupid. the LS should award it to a single member and that person should have full control of it outside of selling it, if he wants to lend it to someone else or not, it should be his choice. to share LS property is dumb.

    imo, if you're not allowed to sell it, than that already means it's LS Property.

  16. #16
    Relic Shield
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    I feel the easy solution is to only give out big items to people that have already earned it. We changed our rules when we got screwed out of a vermillion cloak that more or less got defaulted to a white mage(back in the days where it was more significant to the ls than it is now).

    I always say to only give it to a person that if they would quit the ls tomorrow, you could say for sure that they earned the item. That way you avoid the drama on if the person has earned the item or not. If the linkshell feels that nobody has earned it, you could always sell it and use the gil to buy needed items for other jobs that have earned something else.

    Making stuff ls property or asking for something back also causes people that don't want to be in the linkshell stay in the linkshell and pretty much just become a cancer to it. I don't know about anyone else but I for sure don't want people in my linkshell that don't want to be in it.

  17. #17

    your sig owns me Ryany

  18. #18
    Melee Summoner
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    funny you call yourself a LS leader but cry to everyone when you dont get your way. kind of pathetic~

  19. #19

    I think this says alot too.

    http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y123/g ... astrok.jpg

    BUt I think in the future, my LS will have to talk about a better situation so this doesn't happen again. We just honestly didn't think he would be dishonest.

    Aromas- I personally do not have anything to gain from this item- I am a RDM. This is one of the LS's Items. The fact there in lies about his agreement and his word. Its not that I am crying to everyone. I am letting everyone know whats going on as well as getting feedback. It is my responsibilty as a leader to enforce the agreement and see that its upheld. It would be different if he never agreed. But he did. It would be different if he had stuck to his word. Its sad that this has to happen. Its actually very shameful of a person's character to not live up to their word.

  20. #20
    Black Belt
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aromas
    funny you call yourself a LS leader but cry to everyone when you dont get your way. kind of pathetic~
    your LS name is definitely appropriate.

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