Jesus.... Maat cap

[Raineer]

{Understood}

Many mage classes can still be pretty good though, I assume.

Nope, all the good stuff for mages with the exception of HQ staves comes from HNMs. NO HNMs = no nobles, weskits, zenith or any other spiffy JSE. I guess you can still get rdm jse if you call that pimped.

RDM gets nothing from HNM's at all. Zenith is good for converts and that's about it (+5 MAB on hands is trivial-ish) and our AF2 hat is the pimpest thing there is.

[Mifaco]

nobody gets ANYTHING from hnms.

[NynJa]

nobody gets ANYTHING from hnms.

that only applies to NA's

[Kuai]

Ranger can be pimped out with no god king drops

[Chumm]

{Understood}

Many mage classes can still be pretty good though, I assume.

Nope, all the good stuff for mages with the exception of HQ staves comes from HNMs. NO HNMs = no nobles, weskits, zenith or any other spiffy JSE. I guess you can still get rdm jse if you call that pimped.

Don't need to be in an HNM LS to buy JSE, WHM can be pretty pimped without any rare/ex gear (subbing Blessed for Zenith), as can BLM (cept Zenith Mitts, but JSE gives a decent MAB, and Abyssal Earring, but then there's Phantom or Morion +1).

SMN is fine without Zenith, MP regen and avatar perpetuation are more important than max mp, Verm gives the same refresh as Dalmatica, the only super important rare/ex piece is Evoker's Ring, just need to get into avatar pickup parties for that.

Speaking as a BLM with decent gear who really doesn't want to get into the HNMLS scene, it's alright to be a mage sometimes ^^

[mademine]

The question was: Without HNM items what jobs can be pimped out?

I hate to tell ya but without HNMs your BLM doesn't get to wear a weskit kinda hard to be a pimp 75 blm when you are running around in errant body.

Same goes for whm and summoner vermillion cloak is nice and it does give the same refresh as nobles/dalmatica but you can't say you are a uber whm or smn while you are wearing them.

I think everyone will agree that you could be a decent mage without ever having to get or buy an item dropped from a HNM, but if you want to be the best you will need those items.

[layoneil]

you can be a good BRD naked with 13 instruments, you're not a pimped out BRD without a little something something from Vrtra, Kirin, Aspid/Nidhogg.

[NynJa]

I hate to tell ya but without HNMs your BLM doesn't get to wear a weskit kinda hard to be a pimp 75 blm when you are running around in errant body.

Last I checked, Dragon Talons sell like once / day on AH

[threevo]

Ash dragon drops talon and i wouldnt consider that an HNM you need to worry about claiming conisdering it sits up in that shithole of a zone for days at a time. BLM gets 1 item from sky *Zenith Mitts*. You lose 50dmg without them, and thats all. you can buy HQ Manillas and only lose 2MAB, everything else can be purchased. Ranger is close but osode, kote, crimson fingers, ect are really what can pimp you out.

[Moggy]

pimped out chr doesn't need any god or HNM drops :D

[Hirronimus]

Any job can perform well w/o HNM/God drops. Maybe it's my sanity finally coming to terms with the fact that some items just unobtainable, who knows, but what really irks me, are the people who get into HNM LS because they are RDM or BRD or BLM and expect shit handed to them just because they are so and so job. What's worse are the people who get into LS, get what they want and leave. Leaving behind people who work hard to get what they need.

That's why I avoid HNM LS scene to save myself frustration with asshats like that.

[Raineer]

Ash dragon drops talon and i wouldnt consider that an HNM you need to worry about claiming conisdering it sits up in that shithole of a zone for days at a time. BLM gets 1 item from sky *Zenith Mitts*. You lose 50dmg without them, and thats all. you can buy HQ Manillas and only lose 2MAB, everything else can be purchased. Ranger is close but osode, kote, crimson fingers, ect are really what can pimp you out.

Yeah, Osode is really a huge difference-maker for RNG's. Sune-ate helps quite a bit as well.

Dalmatica is one good arguement but just so rare for NA. Only one NA has it on Siren, and wouldn't ya know she quit the damn game 3 days after getting the abjuration /fume.

Only other piece for RDM or BLM is Zenith Mitts, +5MAB is justifiable. Crimson Body is worth it for RDM, just not required to be pimp as Errant as same stats minus alot of MP. Having Zenith and MP gear is really nice at time, but it truly sucks when you NEED to swap in all your +enf gear for the first cast and lose 300 MP or so ><

[Crabs]

I hate to tell ya but without HNMs your BLM doesn't get to wear a weskit kinda hard to be a pimp 75 blm when you are running around in errant body.

Last I checked, Dragon Talons sell like once / day on AH

yea and the majority of those talons come from fafnir..which is an HNM o.o

the other item that blm get from HNM are zenith pumps, but af2 pumps and TM+2 feet can take the place of that, both not from HNM :O

[layoneil]

doesn't Ash Dragon get killed less than Fafnir on all servers?