Gilsellers in Dynamis

[ciechi]

stop posting 3 different times in a row

[Zigma]

The key point, however, is that all other things being equal, people will be able to make more gil by hunting the same things as they used to, compensating for the higher prices (this is why it doesn't matter that, to some extent, it was easier to make gil early on in FFXI history).

If you're going to cite economic theory, at least do us all a favor and get it right. Defending gilsellers because "it was bound to happen anyway" isn't a justification for the fact that they have essentially ruined many parts of the game that were enjoyable beforehand.

Bro , a theory is a solution that is yet to be determined wrong, an educated guess... where as whats happening in game and what i stated is a fact and normal. I highly doubt you are a finance major like me and have taken atleast 6 classes in economics. I have an easier time making gil now then when i started the game. Oh and your entire post had nothing to do with inflation other then ranting about gil sellers for 15 paragraphs.

It does not take someone with a degree in economics to clearly see the problems that are in the game right now. For starters, It was said that they quit selling gil 1 week ago? Funny, a few months ago Murdoc said they stopped selling gil all together when we was fighting over ruby quadavs in Qulun dome.

Let's think back germany, when the goverment was in so much debt that they though the way to solve their problems was to print more money. They printed so much money to the point where a loaf of bread would cost 100 bux. how worthless did it become?

http://www.usagold.com/images/hyperinflation.jpeg


Lets fast foward a little bit. Back when gilsellers was something very rare, gil was actually worth something, places like ige.com would offer up to $60 USD for 300k, The flow of money coming in and out was actually balanced and even the people who bought gil did not effect the economy as much as now because prices for items was at a reasonable level.

When gilsellers came and started making their 9 to 5 jobs ffxi, everything fucked up because the balance crumbled. They would farm/camp 24/7 non-stop and money kept coming into the game and things started to jack up as the result of this. I took 2 semesters of economy and i can sure as hell tell you that what you are saying is not completly true and it sure as hell is NOT normal. Unlike real life where the goverment is in control of how much money is bieng printed, the players are in control of how much gil is bieng brought into the game, not square-enix. When you substitute players for people out to make a money off something that was not designed to be a source of income for the real life then you are going to have problems. When this effects thousands of 'players' who are legit then there are going to be problems and it's not something you can justify by saying that it's normal when clearly it's not.





The other subject is them bieng in your LS. Like it was said before, wtf are you thinking associating yourself with them. Obviously you don't care about the image you set out for yourself. How can you be so blind into thinking that they have turned into legit players just because they've helped you obtain/complete a few items/quest. I mean come on, Are you that easy? I'm not going to go into detail on how bad this looks but i do give you credit for not caring wtf people think because it's your time in-game and not theirs.

[Daahan]

They are not in our LS Zigma. Not a single one of them holds a Fantajii pearl. Edit: Also, we did not say they stopped gilselling because they helped us. They told us that they have stopped. And as I said in my long post, there is no way to tell whether or not they are telling the truth.

[Zigma]

They are not in our LS Zigma. Not a single one of them holds a Fantajii pearl.

But your LS associates themselves with them so it's the same thing as teaming up. Sorry if it sounds bad but if i see it like this, im sure the other people see it the same way.

[Ultrabum]

http://img263.echo.cx/img263/1229/owned10rf.th.jpg

[NynJa]

"theyre our friends, and we let them do dynamis with us...but theyre not in our linkshell, so its ok"

[Arwyn]

please no one talk about economics without knowing the simple bottom line of supply and demand. i swear...there's soo many RMTers that hate on gilsellers. why? they're how you get your gear. gilsellers cant make the economy bad if you dont BUY gil and then BUY their overpriced stuff. after a few times of their several million gil items return to their delivery box, they'll lower prices or what not. but i guess people are too impatient to wait, and those same people dont have an ls to go camp whatever drops what they need. so using real life money is the only solution. RMTing to buy yourself a nobles tunic or scorpion harness...i bet you're proud. and all you no lvls, with no ls, that buy nobles or what not off AH, i doubt you got that from mining....

dont get me wrong. I dont like gilsellers. buy i dont like RMTers the same.

[layoneil]

When gilsellers came and started making their 9 to 5 jobs ffxi, everything fucked up because the balance crumbled. They would farm/camp 24/7 non-stop and money kept coming into the game and things started to jack up as the result of this.

this is a bullshit explanation given by people who THINK they know economics.

money doesn't keep coming into the game because of gil sellers, they don't do things that add money into the game. farming NM items and selling them for exorbitant prices doesn't add gil to the game.

gil comes into the game from NPCs, either quest/mission rewards, selling items to NPCs or killing mobs that drop gil. gil sellers don't do that stuff as far as i can tell. they don't camp Amemit for gil drops, they camp it for item drops. item drops does NOT add gil to the economy.

the economy inflates because the rate of incoming gil is higher than the rate of outgoing gil (buying NPC items, paying NPC fees). overall, that isn't even a problem if inflation rates are even across the board. but inflation rates are not even, high end items increase in prices much faster than low end items.

high end items like O.Kote, Leaping Boots, Emp Hairpin all doubled, tripled or quadrupled in price but low end items and commonly sold items like Fire Crystals doesn't go up at the same rate. they went up but by like 50%-75% not 200%-2000% like some of the high priced items.

Padded Cap selling inflated the economy more than anything else, NPC paying gil for padded caps added more gil than the current system can ever take out.

gil buyers are the cause of why the high-end item prices go up so high, gil sellers like them or not can't control the market if no one is buying their priced stuff. and no, gil buyers would not stop existing if all the organized gil sellers get MPK'd or banned, gil buyers will always be in these games unless the items/money means absolutely nothing in the game or the company has a zero tolerance policy on all gil buyers and sellers.

[Daahan]

please no one talk about economics without knowing the simple bottom line of supply and demand. i swear...there's soo many RMTers that hate on gilsellers. why? they're how you get your gear. gilsellers cant make the economy bad if you dont BUY gil and then BUY their overpriced stuff. after a few times of their several million gil items return to their delivery box, they'll lower prices or what not. but i guess people are too impatient to wait, and those same people dont have an ls to go camp whatever drops what they need. so using real life money is the only solution. RMTing to buy yourself a nobles tunic or scorpion harness...i bet you're proud. and all you no lvls, with no ls, that buy nobles or what not off AH, i doubt you got that from mining....

dont get me wrong. I dont like gilsellers. buy i dont like RMTers the same.

thank you.

[Arwyn]

amen to sendoh.

[Zigma]

this is a bullshit explanation given by people who THINK they know economics.

I never said i was a pro when it came to economics but I did take 2 semesters of it.


Sure enough you are right on gil coming from npcs, killing mobs but before the gilsellers came most of the money nms was not camped as heavily.

think back when they banned the 800 gilsellers. Remember Heba, benq, Acer etc etc, remember how there was always at least 20 amemet skins on AH? When they got banned there was not that many skins on the AH. At times there would be about 3 to 5.

gil comes into the game from NPCs, either quest/mission rewards, selling items to NPCs or killing mobs that drop gil. gil sellers don't do that stuff as far as i can tell. they don't camp Amemit for gil drops, they camp it for item drops. item drops does NOT add gil to the economy.

gold = amemet skin
money = gold

If history teaches anything, it is that government cannot be trusted to manage money. When currency is not redeemable in gold, its value depends entirely on the judgment and the conscience of the politicians.

check out http://www.usagold.com/GermanNightmare.html

Like i said, i'm not a expert in economy and i welcome you to correct me if im wrong but do it showing a little respect. It goes a long way.

[Daahan]

amen to sendoh.

ditto, finally some intelligence

[Arwyn]

DONT BUY AMEMET SKIN = NO GOLD
NO GOLD = NO MONEY

problem solved. although your explanations and outlook are well organized and well though of Zigma, it seems as though you view things one sided, through the eyes of someone who despises gilsellers. I dont think Sendoh said anything that was disrespectful. He merely skipped the sugar coated version. ^^

[Daahan]

Zigma, at the time that all those gilsellers were banned, the prices of Amemet Mantle+1 rose to about 1.4millionish, and jumped up and down every now and then.

Gilsellers are back and it went back down to 1.1million and jumps up and down every now and then.

[Sekkite]

You tell me these guys are decent,nice and helpful people. That's nice and dandy and all but that doesn't stop the fact that they are overall THE main reason for my gil woes and to the very effect the reason for this huge inflation in the economy.'

How many people actually took economics in college? I have Inflation in the game is caused because there is more gil being brought into the game ( via quests, missions, npcing items ) then is being absorbed. This game doesnt have enough money syncs to reduce the amount of gil generated in the game. If you logged on the game the very first day there was maybe a couple hundred k in gil on the entire server. How much gil is on the server now? trillions? Prices go up because everyday there is more and more gil generated by all the players. Don't pin inflation on sellers because everyone is at fault. It happens in everyday life. How much was gas 30 years ago ? Dam must have been the gil sellers....... BTW I have no problems raiseing gil. I do a craft or camp HNM that everyone supposedly says are always 100% claimed by *sellers*. My ls has no problem getting atleast 75% of the claims on all HNM that we camp ( except King Behemoth, Fafnir, ETC) due to ping rates . How do we do this? Hmmm numbers, and actually camping them more then 1 day a month. PoS , FF , Hokuten , and Fantajii are the only habitual campers i see. Ok so im off track.......
Anyone that has played any MMORPG know that inflation ALWAYS HAPPENS... did it happen on EVE ? yes EQ ? yes Diablo ? yes ,think i need to go on ?

PS: Economics 101 available at any college in your area !
Gil sellers or not it is bound to happen. If this game is that frustrating for you , why play ?

You must've failed Economics 101.

Lets look at some details you may have missed.

One of the biggest, if not the biggest causes for so much gil in the economy: Rusty cap niche and fish botting in Rabao(It was stopped way too late)

One of the effects of gil buying: Since so much gil is so easy for so many players to get, the players that do buy gil don't assign much sense of value to the gil they got. Since for the majority of players, getting over 100K gil for less then half of what they make an hour at work in real life is considerably easier for them then getting 20-40K an hour in FFXI farming. Since they don't assign nearly as much value to the gil they have, they are much more willing to let sellers set the price while they buy it at whatever new price the seller sells it at, instead of waiting a few days and forcing the sellers to sell the item at a reduced price(assuming the seller wants to get the item sold quickly, which for the most part is how it is). And since sellers usually sell stuff for profit, prices increase! *ghasp*

[Tearshang]

RAWR!!!! ME WANT BANANAS!!!!!!

[Zigma]

the economy in the game is different then the one in real life so it's hard to talk about it (for me at least). You simply can't throw away a amemet+1 when it gets old/you don't need it anymore.

I don't hate gilsellers but i also don't like them.

[Daahan]

You tell me these guys are decent,nice and helpful people. That's nice and dandy and all but that doesn't stop the fact that they are overall THE main reason for my gil woes and to the very effect the reason for this huge inflation in the economy.'

How many people actually took economics in college? I have Inflation in the game is caused because there is more gil being brought into the game ( via quests, missions, npcing items ) then is being absorbed. This game doesnt have enough money syncs to reduce the amount of gil generated in the game. If you logged on the game the very first day there was maybe a couple hundred k in gil on the entire server. How much gil is on the server now? trillions? Prices go up because everyday there is more and more gil generated by all the players. Don't pin inflation on sellers because everyone is at fault. It happens in everyday life. How much was gas 30 years ago ? Dam must have been the gil sellers....... BTW I have no problems raiseing gil. I do a craft or camp HNM that everyone supposedly says are always 100% claimed by *sellers*. My ls has no problem getting atleast 75% of the claims on all HNM that we camp ( except King Behemoth, Fafnir, ETC) due to ping rates . How do we do this? Hmmm numbers, and actually camping them more then 1 day a month. PoS , FF , Hokuten , and Fantajii are the only habitual campers i see. Ok so im off track.......
Anyone that has played any MMORPG know that inflation ALWAYS HAPPENS... did it happen on EVE ? yes EQ ? yes Diablo ? yes ,think i need to go on ?

PS: Economics 101 available at any college in your area !
Gil sellers or not it is bound to happen. If this game is that frustrating for you , why play ?

You must've failed Economics 101.

Lets look at some details you may have missed.

One of the biggest, if not the biggest causes for so much gil in the economy: Rusty cap niche and fish botting in Rabao(It was stopped way too late)

One of the effects of gil buying: Since so much gil is so easy for so many players to get, the players that do buy gil don't assign much sense of value to the gil they got. Since for the majority of players, getting over 100K gil for less then half of what they make an hour at work in real life is considerably easier for them then getting 20-40K an hour in FFXI farming. Since they don't assign nearly as much value to the gil they have, they are much more willing to let sellers set the price while they buy it at whatever new price the seller sells it at, instead of waiting a few days and forcing the sellers to sell the item at a reduced price(assuming the seller wants to get the item sold quickly, which for the most part is how it is). And since sellers usually sell stuff for profit, prices increase! *ghasp*

Thank you for repeating what Twinyooper just said with the only difference being is that you supplied an example.

[Daahan]

the economy in the game is different then the one in real life so it's hard to talk about it (for me at least). You simply can't throw away a amemet+1 when it gets old/you don't need it anymore.

I don't hate gilsellers but i also don't like them.

Then why were you comparing it WW2 Germany etc before? lol

[Zigma]

the economy in the game is different then the one in real life so it's hard to talk about it (for me at least). You simply can't throw away a amemet+1 when it gets old/you don't need it anymore.

I don't hate gilsellers but i also don't like them.

Then why were you comparing it WW2 Germany etc before? lol

Because i think its a good example. Plus we talked about it in class and its was something i found interesting back then.