Fafnir Comments

[Hirronimus]

You claimed with 2 people. We can go on with this forever.

[berticus]

cobra is a race to the claim.. it has everything to do with preparedness and nothing to do with the grey between the time someone begins to and ends zenmetsu..

when a mob is uncamped, that's a totally different story from when multiple people are prepared and the pulling LS dies. we had this situation a lot with sekaix last summer, one time at nidhogg arno faked he was pulling and then sekaix went in and zenmetsu because we rushed them. another time we were prepping for tiamat and FI rushed us, and we died because some people were afk/tiamat was hard at the beginning under that kind of pressure. we died and they got and killed it.

pulling fast and surviving on a mob thats already popped is a matter of skill. determining when the first pulling LS has died and who can go next is an extremely confusing situation that has been addressed by the JP community, and adopted by cooperative NAs, with the /random system for wiping.

we also didnt hold it for more than 10-20 min.. everyone was on the way

[Not Kuno]

It was unclaimed and walking around. If they wanted it, they could have gotton it but they didnt for whatever reason.

What happened today was different. Someone claimed it and died. Hokuten stole it from them despite them not completely wiping yet (hmm didnt that happen to us yesterday with FI, even though they might "bot" they at least gave it back) and completely disregarded and common decency and curtisy.


Now if anbu was fighting Fafnir and we stole claim it with 2 people, then it would be the same thing. But if it's walking around freely and you're slow to claim its nobodies fault but your own.

[Hirronimus]

Determining when the first pulling LS has died and who can go next is an extremely confusing situation that has been addressed by the JP community, and adopted by cooperative NAs, with the /random system for wiping.

How many of NA linkshells were briefed on that decision and rules?

[berticus]

Determining when the first pulling LS has died and who can go next is an extremely confusing situation that has been addressed by the JP community, and adopted by cooperative NAs, with the /random system for wiping.

How many of NA linkshells were briefed on that decision and rules?

it's assumed people know, especially people who have done it before. don't deny you and your LS know about the random system, because that would be a lie.

[Hirronimus]

I'm not denying anything here Bert, but assumtions create misscommunication.

Kuno, were they still fighting it after you got claim and your 3 man reinforcement got there?

[Litoriceboi]

First of all, Kuno and Boen didnt claim until there was a tank there (Vudoo). Liltwin was a min away from Aery. and I was about 3 mins away from Aery. They claimed while Anbu was busy fighting spiders. They werent ready. We were. That's it.

[Amarok]

They weren't fighting it ever. They had never even dropped into the pit. What you're saying is if I walked into a room where someone was letting cassie sit to move the time and I claimed it, I would be in the wrong. All of your assumptions are wrong about what happened and you never have anything besides shit talking to one person or another to say. You're opinion is regarded as a joke by most and that's exactly what it is most of the time.

[ChOkOmArU]

At this point Hirro is not representing our linkshell. I would appreciate it if you guys would keep it to PM's. We were told to stop talking. So I am saying now stfu if your are a part of Hokuten. If not ... then you deal with your own actions. Thank you for your time ^^ goodbye.

[Hirronimus]

What I want to know Bert, is who decides which LS is competent to kill or follow these rules? And what gives them the right to decide? If there are such a thing as a community that discusses afore mentioned rules, why not include or at least explain the "rules" to linkshells not included?

[MrWatermonkey]

Hmmm our Ls was the one they ran past and claimed. No one from our linkshell complained about it. No one Cares. So stop arguing on our behalf Hirro. I don't need it. :D

[Hirronimus]

All of your assumptions are wrong about what happened and you never have anything besides shit talking to one person or another to say. You're opinion is regarded as a joke by most and that's exactly what it is most of the time.

Your comments towards me mean exact same thing that you mentioned I'm doing. I'm glad I can still make you laugh.

At this point Hirro is not representing our linkshell. I would appreciate it if you guys would keep it to PM's. We were told to stop talking. So I am saying now stfu if your are a part of Hokuten. If not ... then you deal with your own actions. Thank you for your time ^^ goodbye.

I'm not here representing any linkshell. I'm speaking as myself, as a player, as an individual who wants to understand what is going on with the whole "thou" shall not steal" ethics and why some people their actions are justifiable.

Sorry if I offended you Apeman, but somethings just erk me the wrong way and I'm not one to sit and be quiet about the issue.

[Almaa]

wow, seriously, the situation is so different and you're using them to support each other, give me a break, I feel the need to try to explain it to you, but the problem is, everyone else already has and you are still trying to argue, why?

[Xavier]

We wern't included in the random - a random between a bunch of linkshells who usually /do not camp it/. The game is filled with botting by FI - and between BG and SB - pretty much the only NA linkshells who ever get claim.

Do you know how we got the majority of our claims on Fafnir? We watched a JP LS pull it, die, and we won the random/were the only other LS there camping it. We played by the rules, we got a lot of fafnirs. We've only actually claimed Fafnir in a competitive arena about 10-15 times out of 45 or so. We don't complain that we never got our due, we just started early enough to get free chances at it back when Fafnir was actually still hard and a lot of linkshells would wipe to it.

You were included in the random, you decided not to escape with everyone else, oh and, I seem to recall seeing this right around the time we were trying to setup a fair random, which shows that you knew what you were doing, and were getting plenty of tells saying it wasn't a legit claim and a random was needed;

http://img244.echo.cx/img244/8017/mogicomment7jx.png

Hirronimus, you talking about fairplay strikes me as funny, and I hate to bring up ancient history, but you weren't much of a uniter of linkshells 3 days after SB and BG were on REALLY good terms with each other as you cured our vokers at Behemoth. The rules are very clear with just about everything, the only problem is people choose to ignore them when its convienant for them.

[Quicklet]

What I want to know Bert, is who decides which LS is competent to kill or follow these rules? And what gives them the right to decide? If there are such a thing as a community that discusses afore mentioned rules, why not include or at least explain the "rules" to linkshells not included?

Anyone who is in a position to lead an endgame HNMLS on this server should already know the etiquette expected from past history and from all the times it has been talked about both on these forums *and* on the front page news when it has been relevant. They are the "rules" because they work, they worked long before NA HNMLSes were a part of the endgame, and if new HNMLSes want to be a part of that endgame they should follow that etiquette otherwise nobody will recognize them as legitimate (why do you think nobody recognizes gilsellers as legitimate players after MPKing and stealing claims at every opportunity?). Despite the flaws in the game, most people can deal with the concept of competition as long as everyone plays fair. If there was no understanding about randoming among every HNMLS that's been involved in the endgame, it would be 10 times more chaotic than it gets now.

It's a matter of common sense and it's a matter of responsibility. Don't you think there's a level of outrage that the reason why Hokuten claimed Fafnir was because "they thought they deserved the claim over the other LSes there" even though it goes against the established etiquette regarding those types of situations.

I'm not here representing any linkshell. I'm speaking as myself, as a player, as an individual who wants to understand what is going on with the whole "thou" shall not steal" ethics and why some people their actions are justifiable.

I find it ironic that the same person who defended mechanics abuse of the game in order to gain a claim advantage at KB is trying to defend a complete disregard of established norms. This is a black and white situation, and you're trying to say that there is some kind of grey in between, but there isn't. When this type of situation happens, you're not supposed to take claim before you establish who actually has the right to the next claim through randoming, as has been documented on these forums practically every single time it's happened.

Furthermore, in the case of some new linkshell who *honestly* was unaware of how things worked, it would be understandable that there is some confusion and as long as they learn how things work from that point on, and it wouldn't be such a big deal. For a linkshell like Hokuten that knows how things work though, you can't hide under ignorance, and that's why I don't even understand what the point of your arguing is. All you are doing is trying to muck up a situation because you don't like it, for all I can tell.

Edit: By the way, you can't claim that you're "not representing any linkshell" because you're in Hokuten, so de facto you represent them as a member. To say that it doesn't have any relevance to the points you're trying to argue is a farce. You're clearly trying to justify stealing claim from a mob before randoming determines who goes next by hiding behind the lie that "it looked like people were randoming without us so we decided to just take the claim."

[Fatality]

cobra is a race to the claim.. it has everything to do with preparedness and nothing to do with the grey between the time someone begins to and ends zenmetsu..

when a mob is uncamped, that's a totally different story from when multiple people are prepared and the pulling LS dies. we had this situation a lot with sekaix last summer, one time at nidhogg arno faked he was pulling and then sekaix went in and zenmetsu because we rushed them. another time we were prepping for tiamat and FI rushed us, and we died because some people were afk/tiamat was hard at the beginning under that kind of pressure. we died and they got and killed it.

pulling fast and surviving on a mob thats already popped is a matter of skill. determining when the first pulling LS has died and who can go next is an extremely confusing situation that has been addressed by the JP community, and adopted by cooperative NAs, with the /random system for wiping.

we also didnt hold it for more than 10-20 min.. everyone was on the way

im not trying to start anything with BG or anything, but i remeber when u guys called a GM on me for holding cassie for 10 minutes when a mage was on the way.

[Daahan]

cobra is a race to the claim.. it has everything to do with preparedness and nothing to do with the grey between the time someone begins to and ends zenmetsu..

when a mob is uncamped, that's a totally different story from when multiple people are prepared and the pulling LS dies. we had this situation a lot with sekaix last summer, one time at nidhogg arno faked he was pulling and then sekaix went in and zenmetsu because we rushed them. another time we were prepping for tiamat and FI rushed us, and we died because some people were afk/tiamat was hard at the beginning under that kind of pressure. we died and they got and killed it.

pulling fast and surviving on a mob thats already popped is a matter of skill. determining when the first pulling LS has died and who can go next is an extremely confusing situation that has been addressed by the JP community, and adopted by cooperative NAs, with the /random system for wiping.

we also didnt hold it for more than 10-20 min.. everyone was on the way

im not trying to start anything with BG or anything, but i remeber when u guys called a GM on me for holding cassie for 10 minutes when a mage was on the way.

the plot thickens

[Fatality]

cobra is a race to the claim.. it has everything to do with preparedness and nothing to do with the grey between the time someone begins to and ends zenmetsu..

when a mob is uncamped, that's a totally different story from when multiple people are prepared and the pulling LS dies. we had this situation a lot with sekaix last summer, one time at nidhogg arno faked he was pulling and then sekaix went in and zenmetsu because we rushed them. another time we were prepping for tiamat and FI rushed us, and we died because some people were afk/tiamat was hard at the beginning under that kind of pressure. we died and they got and killed it.

pulling fast and surviving on a mob thats already popped is a matter of skill. determining when the first pulling LS has died and who can go next is an extremely confusing situation that has been addressed by the JP community, and adopted by cooperative NAs, with the /random system for wiping.

we also didnt hold it for more than 10-20 min.. everyone was on the way

im not trying to start anything with BG or anything, but i remeber when u guys called a GM on me for holding cassie for 10 minutes when a mage was on the way.

the plot thickens

according the BG on that day you should never pull something unless you have the jobs there needed to kill it, if you dont a GM should be called. I guess the rules dont apply, im not saying this about all of BG im just saying it about Joft because it was strictly him.

[Quicklet]

im not saying this about all of BG im just saying it about Joft

That pretty much explains everything.

[Fatality]

http://www.theorderls.com/phpBB2/viewto ... highlight=

someone please read over that and explain that to joft, because berticus saying we did nothing wrong by holding fafnir for 10 minutes, and the reading this topic by joft, makes it seem that BG can do anything, i'm sorry if im sounding like a asshole here im not trying to, and im not sticking up for hokuten one bit.