AND THE SCREENSHOT OF THE DAY IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIISSS

[layoneil]

If someone asked you if you sold gil, would you even jokingly say yes about it, knowing that GMs can look at logs and knowing that it's against the TOS?

remember that time i had was running around with a Scorpion Harness for almost a week on my BRD? i told everyone (outside of the LS) who asked that i RMT'd it.

they might as well take it seriously when someone says in-game that they sell gil.

the only person that used the words "sell gil" in the conversation was Orfeo.

Sendoh is only arguing for the sake of arguing. You know very well they have something to do with the selling and/or buying of gil.

partially, but i really don't. i've always placed the blame more on gil-buyers than gil-sellers.

still doesn't adequately defend a complete negligence of the issue by a GM. Hell I could care less if the GM just said "We'll look into the matter," even if he was lying through his teeth, but to flat out say "No I'm not going to do anything about it" is disgraceful and an insult to the game.

i prefer people who tell the truth than people who lie to appease the masses. it's just as disgraceful and an insult to my intelligence when people do that.

incompetent GMs isn't isolated to RMT issues.

Abstain. Or be smart, and put birth control in the rice, damn idiots.

birth control is expensive.

[anoush]

There is set limit in China now(has been for a while), you can only have one child per family i believe.

[layoneil]

There is set limit in China now(has been for a while), you can only have one child per family i believe.

yeah and it's just slightly more effective than the FFXI ToS.

if you have more than one child, you lose the rights to apply to certain government loans, you may lose a government job if you have one.

if you're really poor it doesn't matter.

if you're rich it doesn't matter.

[Shiutou]

There is set limit in China now(has been for a while), you can only have one child per family i believe.

yeah and it's just slightly more effective than the FFXI ToS.

LOL

[Orfeo]

One time I asked a galka drg gil seller if he would sell me gil, I called a GM, and they actually banned him but said nothing because after he told me his rates I said "j/k >". I think it has something to do with what GM you get.

[Tunafish]

If only it was that simple. In China they tried to implement birth control into fucking noodles. No offence, but you can't have such a huge population w/o having a LOT of sex. >.>

Abstain. Or be smart, and put birth control in the rice, damn idiots.

roflcopter

[Enkidu]

partially, but i really don't. i've always placed the blame more on gil-buyers than gil-sellers.

Agreed. I always find it funny when people I know RMT complain about gil-sellers camping "their" NM. Truth is gil-sellers will only be around as long as people are buying gil.

But... some people are just idiots and will buy gil until they get tired of the game. Because of these people gil-sellers will not leave and it's not fair for legit players. In that case I just wish SE would track both gil-sellers and people who have bought gil more then 3 times and just ban them. It really can't be that difficult to track large transactions of gil from suspicious players could it? Honestly they should just consider every chinese IP address suspicious and work from there, it wouldn't be conclusive proof but it would be rather obvious who's selling gil and who is not. Yeah yeah profiling is bad, but we all know most gil-sellers are chinese and I'd assume most chinese players are gil-sellers.

Honestly I think SE are just too greedy to give up the thousands of dollars they make per month from gil-sellers and the hardcore gil-buyers who would obviously quit if they had to -dare I say it- farm for gil.

birth control is expensive.

Actually it's really cheap to make. Expensive in America because it's considered a luxury drug and... well... we pay a hell of a lot more because drug companies ship it to other countries way below the production cost (so dirt cheap it's laughable) so we have to pick up the tab basically. Sometimes our free market bites us in the ass.


Anyways why doesn't someone start up a gil-seller/RMT'er thread and list all the known (or highly suspected) gil-sellers/RMT'ers? Of course you'd probably have to limit RMT'ers to people who've bought accounts or people who admit to buying gil, otherwise it'd just be a flame fest. So hard keeping track of who's legit and who's not and I'd really hate to let a NM go thinking it's a legit player when it's just a gil-seller. Not even safe up in sky anymore...

[Janice]

There is no need to profile at all. Just monitor the biggest movers of gil and it should become fairly obvious what is going on. It would be pretty easy to see which ones are ls banks and which ones are moving gil to a bunch of different low and high lvl players.

[Quicklet]

i've always placed the blame more on gil-buyers than gil-sellers.

I've already put forth a compelling argument as to why gilsellers historically have created more of the problem than gilbuyers. If you want a prime example of why gilsellers monopolizing game mechanics is the larger part of the problem, look at the existence of WoW goldfarmers and how little impact it has had on the general playerbase because of the game design. They still exist in the game, but it isn't a problem because they can't abuse the game environment to the detriment of other players.

http://www.theorderls.com/phpBB2/viewto ... ght=#38188

I think the real point that upsets people about gilsellers is not that they sell gil. I could care less if Joe Blow sells some of the gil that he has to someone else who wants to buy it. It crosses the line once he starts camping something 24 hours a day, trying to prevent anyone else from having a reasonable chance to get it himself.

As far as the much more valid point that

Honestly I think SE are just too greedy to give up the thousands of dollars they make per month from gil-sellers and the hardcore gil-buyers who would obviously quit if they had to -dare I say it- farm for gil.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is a motive for inaction, or if fear of more DDoS attacks is a motive for inaction. It's short-sighted, though, to believe that not taking action is going to be beneficial to their long-term finances. Think about it. Even though it's against the FFXI TOS to buy and sell gil, I think the majority of players could care less as long as it doesn't ruin the game environment. When the people who sell gil go to such great lengths, though, that it begins to hinder legitimate players' ability to actually play the game, it becomes much more than a technical TOS violation; it becomes a major game design flaw.

I believe that the hardcore gil-buyers are a very small minority compared to "average gil-buyers" or players who don't buy gil at all. When the gameplay of FFXI becomes so bad that gilsellers MPK and claim steal King Behemoth, Aspidochelone, and Nidhogg (and it has already started happening on some servers), maybe the hardcore gil-buyers will pay 2 million gil to get their prized abjuration from the gilsellers, but I bet you the average players are going to be more and more frustrated about it.

Let's face it, you can only level so many jobs before it becomes so repetitious that many players don't want to level any new jobs. Of course there will be a small minority who will want to level all jobs to 75 to get a Maat's Cap, but the vast majority of players (especially the more casual players who don't even have one job at 75 yet) are going to want to experience new things. The way FFXI is set up, there is only so much content to go around, and the focus of their content has not been forward thinking, but it has been short-sighted.

If you think that gilsellers aren't going to have an impact on the endgame, they already have, and because more and more players (especially casual players) are moving toward the level cap on at least one job, it's a ticking time bomb that's going to hurt SE much more than they might be gaining from keeping their accounts alive. I guarantee you that if SE neither provides enough content/alternatives to minimalize the impact of gilsellers monopolizing certain content in the game, nor changes their endorsement of MPK and intentional claim stealing (which is what GM inaction on these is equivalent to) by the next expansion, that there are going to be so many players who get fed up with the game and cancel their subscriptions that SE will regret not doing something sooner.

birth control is expensive.

Actually it's really cheap to make. Expensive in America because it's considered a luxury drug and... well... we pay a hell of a lot more because drug companies ship it to other countries way below the production cost (so dirt cheap it's laughable) so we have to pick up the tab basically. Sometimes our free market bites us in the ass.

Actually, that's not free market since the only reason they would be shipping birth control to other countries below production cost is because it's either mandated by law or (more likely) because they get subsidized for doing so. Also because of the way drug patents work in the U.S., and because of the expenses a lot of drug companies like to put into advertising, they're able to charge U.S. citizens a lot more because they're able to block the generic form of the drug from being imported from other countries or from being produced and sold by other companies within the U.S., essentially giving them a monopoly on the drug for a number of years.

[Moggy]

There is no need to profile at all. Just monitor the biggest movers of gil and it should become fairly obvious what is going on. It would be pretty easy to see which ones are ls banks and which ones are moving gil to a bunch of different low and high lvl players.

shit man worldx, silverlight, kakun, whitez, zan, and a loooot of crafters is gonna get banned, none of us are ls banks, and for hell sure we move large amount of gil to our level 1-5 mule (not neccessary on the same account) and then from mules back to other char to buy things sell things, put on AH, show off, price at AH.........i assume ur not a crafter if u'll suggest something like that hahaha

[Janice]

There is no need to profile at all. Just monitor the biggest movers of gil and it should become fairly obvious what is going on. It would be pretty easy to see which ones are ls banks and which ones are moving gil to a bunch of different low and high lvl players.

shit man worldx, silverlight, kakun, whitez, zan, and a loooot of crafters is gonna get banned, none of us are ls banks, and for hell sure we move large amount of gil to our level 1-5 mule (not neccessary on the same account) and then from mules back to other char to buy things sell things, put on AH, show off, price at AH.........i assume ur not a crafter if u'll suggest something like that hahaha

That is still different than what gilsellers do and is very easy to determine the difference between banks - crafters - gil sellers.

[Cyprus]

That is still different than what gilsellers do and is very easy to determine the difference between banks - crafters - gil sellers.

I think the key things you need to monitor in order to find out if someone is a gil seller are the following:

The area they spend most of their time in.
Their rank.
How long they are on each day.
Looking at their name in comparison to others there. (ex. Skyboy, Skygirl)


There are probably other things that could define someone as being a gil seller, but I think that a combination of these would deem that person worthy of accusation.

[DarkMistSkeleton]

The area they spend most of their time in.
Their rank.
How long they are on each day.
Looking at their name in comparison to others there. (ex. Skyboy, Skygirl)

Very true but what if they are real players... I have seen a few people that are real that bassicly live on Final Fantasy 11 so I would say that "How long they are on each day." shouldn't be a factor... Hell what if I kid is on 24/7 because he doesn't have school that week? Does that put 1 strike twords him? It shouldn't because if he isn't a gil seller you are just assuming that the factor should go against him!

[Scunsion]

its not that they're on 24/7 its that they're on 24/7 and in kuftal most of the time, or camping various other NMs.

[Enkidu]

Actually, that's not free market since the only reason they would be shipping birth control to other countries below production cost is because it's either mandated by law or (more likely) because they get subsidized for doing so. Also because of the way drug patents work in the U.S., and because of the expenses a lot of drug companies like to put into advertising, they're able to charge U.S. citizens a lot more because they're able to block the generic form of the drug from being imported from other countries or from being produced and sold by other companies within the U.S., essentially giving them a monopoly on the drug for a number of years.

Well I should clarify what I mean exactly. First off, by production cost I include the pre-costs of research and development which quite honestly are mind boggling expensive. So when I say they ship drugs way below the production costs I don't mean companies are selling the drugs cheaper then how much they cost to be made, but if you take into consideration all the costs on said drug it is below the production cost. I don't know, I'm a chemist, my economic rhetoric may be off base, hope that clarifies. Oh also add in all the the R&D costs for drugs that failed to meet FDA standards, when you take that into consideration drug companies in America are making far less then what your local politician will tell you.

As for the rest of the debate, most countries governments (best example is Canada) control the importation of drugs and therefore basically tell drug companies "We'll pay you this." and if they don't agree they move to the next drug company. Also drug patents are a little different then what you may think. R&D accounts for about 70-80% of a drug patents lifetime, that means this drug is patented but not even on the market for most of it's lifetime. Right after the drug is patented, other countries slowly steal all of the research and start making it themselves if it ends up being a profitable drug. We here in America probably develop more then 90% of the drugs on the market, yet we should take a financial blow because a company in Indonesia can steal our research and make the drug without any of the R&D costs? Hell no. So we're forced to sell the drugs at much lower prices to other countries or lose the contract to some other country making the same drug while we still have a huge R&D bill to pay off. In a nutshell that's why drugs cost so much more in America. The only solution would be a worldwide patent system (highly improbable), otherwise you can kiss American R&D goodbye. Hell kiss R&D in general goodbye, companies would not take the financial risk of R&D in any country.

Also stealing drug R&D is as simple as buying the product and handing it to a chemist. This is not like stealing military intelligence, there is no possible way for any drug company to safeguard their creations. Sorry for sidetracking, just really bored atm.