WHM/NIN DD viability...

[Onizuka]

like I wrote above it first takes Stoneskin off - which is around 400 HP strong at 75.

And when you see a DRK activate souleater use FLASH. It sometimes makes Guillotine miss completely (no BS - been done many times )

I would stun before i WS, lol , LR, WB, SE, Stun, Guillotine= DEATH^^

[Eromenos-Ifrit]

WHM DD is very possible in KRT. Hell as a stand back mage with +64MND (taru) i can duo mb banishIII and holy and do as much as a blm's mb (for about the same amount of MP really that they'd use for thier strongest spell used). We've done 3-4 WHM in an EXP party there a few times just as nukers alone, and were chaining non-stop (again not speed of mnk, but about 6k an hour, as opposed to 7-8+k an hour in MNK party)

But in melee gear you can take 4whm 1rdm 1brd and do serious damage actually. Hexa > Black Halo= light then you have 3whms casting BanishIII following it with holy, and the person that did black halo just doing holy. (when in reality that's overkill) you can just have the 3 non-sc closer just do banishIII and the closer to holy, and it's pretty much beatdown by that point. You won't get MNK skillchains, but it's a hell of a lot of run, and it's still a running party.

As for sacrificing so much mnd for some of that gear, you are more than likely helping Hexastrike, while hurting Blackhalo. Black Halo's Variables are STR MND and TP. So if you lose alot of your MND, you're really hurting damage of the WS. You also probably really wouldn't want a kraken in your off hand because while it gives you tp fast, it gives the mob tp just as fast, unless all the whms in party have one in offhand and just spamming Hexa with making it a virtual MNK party in a way. Good luck getting 4 WHM that all have one just laying around to use and have the rest of the gear to make it a successful party too though.

Anywhere other than KRT, i would say not a chance though, KRT belongs to MNKs and skilled adventurous WHMs. I love playing there because it's a change from the norm for whm, and lets us play ^^

[Elcura]

WHM DD is very possible in KRT. Hell as a stand back mage with +64MND (taru) i can duo mb banishIII and holy and do as much as a blm's mb (for about the same amount of MP really that they'd use for thier strongest spell used). We've done 3-4 WHM in an EXP party there a few times just as nukers alone, and were chaining non-stop (again not speed of mnk, but about 6k an hour, as opposed to 7-8+k an hour in MNK party)

I wish my WHMs would Banish that hard in KRT PTs, or at least on Banshees so we can continue the chain. I wouldn't doubt WHM is a good DD in KRT, at least better then any mage and possibly THF/DRK/DRG/RNG, but still skeptical about them being on par with SAM/WAR/DD NIN doing damage via Banish.

Also, an average KRT PT gets 4-6k EXP or when you're missing a core DD job while an average MNK PT will get 7-8k an hour and and good MNK PT will get 10-12k an hour.

But in melee gear you can take 4whm 1rdm 1brd and do serious damage actually. Hexa > Black Halo= light then you have 3whms casting BanishIII following it with holy, and the person that did black halo just doing holy. (when in reality that's overkill) you can just have the 3 non-sc closer just do banishIII and the closer to holy, and it's pretty much beatdown by that point. You won't get MNK skillchains, but it's a hell of a lot of run, and it's still a running party.

That's interesting, but still it makes you wonder if you need to do Banish III (I SO wouldn't recommend Holy) to kill Skels in time to chain won't you be a bit taxed for MP? I mean, skels can hit quite hard and can SPAM Blood Saber and that dark cloud move which rapes shadows, therefore making you waste time casting or recasting Stoneskin when shadows are down or you didn't sub NIN, which is probably not a good idea seeing as /WAR rocks so much.

I would like to see how you do it though, so if you got any SS i'd love to see them, in PM or otherwise.

As for sacrificing so much mnd for some of that gear, you are more than likely helping Hexastrike, while hurting Blackhalo. Black Halo's Variables are STR MND and TP. So if you lose alot of your MND, you're really hurting damage of the WS. You also probably really wouldn't want a kraken in your off hand because while it gives you tp fast, it gives the mob tp just as fast, unless all the whms in party have one in offhand and just spamming Hexa with making it a virtual MNK party in a way. Good luck getting 4 WHM that all have one just laying around to use and have the rest of the gear to make it a successful party too though.

If you're replacing the MND with STR then you're helping Hexa, but if you're just taking away MND for VIT or whatever then you're most likely doing nothing for Hexa, which if I remember correctly was just a STR mod based on TP for Crits (so DEX and +Crit gear would help to an extent). From my Experience with WS that use another mod as well as STR to increase damage it would not worth increasing MND if you're going to sacrifice ATK, ACC or STR for it, like as a MNK I would NEVER use +VIT over any of those stats unless I don't have anything better (like i'm using Genbu's Kabuto cause I don't have O-hat ).

About the Kraken Club... hmm more damage caused then dealt, the DMG rating on it is so shitty it'd probably be better to have a much higher DMG club rather then a club that makes skels spam their moves 5x faster then usual, and with 4 WHMs using it you could very well see a Blood Saber every 1-2 seconds. I'd only recommend this with a SHITLOAD of Subtle Blow gear.

Anywhere other than KRT, i would say not a chance though, KRT belongs to MNKs and skilled adventurous WHMs. I love playing there because it's a change from the norm for whm, and lets us play ^^

I agree with this -- if a WHM wants to DD in a KRT PT they better know what they're doing.

[Onizuka]

Ulmega just wants KRT to himself

[Elcura]

Ulmega just wants KRT to himself

Somewhat true

[Kazen]

4 WAR 1 WHM 1 RDM

Uleg[tab] Range with rampage spam, best melee PT ever. Poor demons got knocked around every which way :3

<can i have it?> ^^/ I've always wanted to try a 4 war party

[Eromenos-Ifrit]

I wish my WHMs would Banish that hard in KRT PTs, or at least on Banshees so we can continue the chain. I wouldn't doubt WHM is a good DD in KRT, at least better then any mage and possibly THF/DRK/DRG/RNG, but still skeptical about them being on par with SAM/WAR/DD NIN doing damage via Banish.

Also, an average KRT PT gets 4-6k EXP or when you're missing a core DD job while an average MNK PT will get 7-8k an hour and and good MNK PT will get 10-12k an hour.

For an Exp party set up using mulitiple whms, we used to love to take:
NIN SAM WHM WHM WHM BRD
Tachi: Kasha > Blade: Ku = Transfixion (light) and the 3 whms would burst it.

And for gear on whm i'll use my self as an example for this scenerio:
Taru 75WHM/37BLM (magic attack bonus is key)
Divine Skill= 269 (capped)
Bases MND= 67 (i have one merit in MND)
Food= Goblin Mushpot +10mnd
Gear: +60MND

Weap= Apollo's Staff (to help lower resist) +2mnd
Head= Zenith Crown +3mnd
Body= Errant houppelande +10mnd (macro'd in from nobles)
Hand= Blessed Mitts +7mnd
Legs= Blessed Trousers +6mnd
Feet= Errant Pigaches +5mnd (macro'd in from cureclogs)
Neck= Ajari Necklace +6mnd
Waist= Penitent's Rope +5mnd
Back= Rainbow Cape +3mnd
Ear1= Cmn. Earring +2mnd
Ear2= Moldavite Earring Magic Attack +5
Rng1= Aqua Ring +5mnd
Rng2= Aqua Ring +5mnd
Ammo= Holy Ampulla +1mnd

TOTAL MND= 137MND
(with Magic Attack Bonus from earring and sj, HQ staff low lower resist, capped skill.)
And funny you said you wish they did on Banshee's because BanishIII does the most damage on those mobs LOL.

BanishIII (96mp if conserve mp don't kick in) on MB does about:
Skellies: 800ish
Ghosts: 900ish
Dogs: 850ish

Holy (100mp if conserve mp don't kick in) on MB does about:
500-550 depending on mob

Totalling 196mp (ish since conserve mp likes to kick in randomly but at a decent rate) For a double MB that does using the lowest figures 1300 damage. Thats not really all that bad that's actually really good damage, a gives a whm that is bored with the normal routine of fighting gods everyday and never being able to play and have a change in routine, a hell of a good time. And you figure a blm to use FireIV or FiragaIII would use either 157mp or 277mp (ish... conserve mp could kick in)

We have no problem getting 6k+ an hour which is definatly the high road for non-mnk parties, and actually alot of fun. But you definatly need capped divine and alot of mnd to be truely effective. Which for alot of whms i know, isn't a problem since we love to stack up on mnd, and not mp.

I notice more benifit from giving myself +45mnd in my cure macros, +60mnd in my enfeebling/divine macros, and +68mnd in my stoneskin macro (kirin staff instead of apollo's), than i would have another 200mp that in a fast paced enviroment you'll never beable to rest all the way back. I notice no difference in mp at all really between when i had 1201mp as a whm vs having 978mp. It's minut in the sceme of things. especially when with all the added mnd i've increased can give me a cureV for 836 with capped healing, nobles, lightstaff, and extra mnd. That's like getting 2 cureIV for far less mp useage, and far less hate.

That's interesting, but still it makes you wonder if you need to do Banish III (I SO wouldn't recommend Holy) to kill Skels in time to chain won't you be a bit taxed for MP? I mean, skels can hit quite hard and can SPAM Blood Saber and that dark cloud move which rapes shadows, therefore making you waste time casting or recasting Stoneskin when shadows are down or you didn't sub NIN, which is probably not a good idea seeing as /WAR rocks so much.

I would like to see how you do it though, so if you got any SS i'd love to see them, in PM or otherwise.

The all WHM party is something we are working towards right now at playing with since there is all this new melee gear for whm. And we think it would be extremely fun to try. Basically pulling 4 of the most skilled whms with capped skilled including club, using more of the new gear for acc and att, and trying it out. Sounds like fun. And even if you are only getting say 5k an hour, lower end of exp parties there, hey it was fun and different, and worth it to me. Not saying it's going to be a perfect MNK party, but definatly something that would be a riot to do time to time and let whms do something together in EXP setting, which they never get to do.

I can say alot of my closest friends in game are WHM, but rarely get to do anything with them, be it they are in different HNM LS, or whatnot, in my own HNM shell, we rarely have more than 1-2 whms for gods and such (which is pretty much me lately, since our other full time whm is needed on brd more, and we have 2 others that have whm, but thier mains are smn and another brd, which are needed more. and 1 that is with us if he's on) we pretty much do stuff in small numbers when in sky, since we were up there very day almost it just became easier and easier to accomplish. So i don't get to experience playing with other whms as often as i'd like. So things like this are always a welcomed change. ^^

If you're replacing the MND with STR then you're helping Hexa, but if you're just taking away MND for VIT or whatever then you're most likely doing nothing for Hexa, which if I remember correctly was just a STR mod based on TP for Crits (so DEX and +Crit gear would help to an extent). From my Experience with WS that use another mod as well as STR to increase damage it would not worth increasing MND if you're going to sacrifice ATK, ACC or STR for it, like as a MNK I would NEVER use +VIT over any of those stats unless I don't have anything better (like i'm using Genbu's Kabuto cause I don't have O-hat ).

About the Kraken Club... hmm more damage caused then dealt, the DMG rating on it is so shitty it'd probably be better to have a much higher DMG club rather then a club that makes skels spam their moves 5x faster then usual, and with 4 WHMs using it you could very well see a Blood Saber every 1-2 seconds. I'd only recommend this with a SHITLOAD of Subtle Blow gear.

In a 4whm 1rdm 1brd set up, you'd definatly need to sacrifice alot of mnd to acheive this, and would have to look to increasing other stats to make it successful. Not doubting that in the least. So you're burst will hardly be as good, that's a given. And with so much mnd gear being lost, you are right, holy would suffer the most, but your mp wouldn't be used in healing really, you have the brd and rdm for healing since the whms are being your source of damage. Not saying perfect, but definatly worth toying with and trying different ways, and probably a hell of a lot of fun for a group of 4 whms that want a break from the norm.

[Nirokun!]

If you're whoring mnd, AF1 hat has 4, and so does HQ Errant hat.

...and my banish casts always include macro'ing in elite beret healer's pantaloons, divine torque, and if i had them, cleric's mitts o.o

Must...resist...meleeing...[Xavier---you melees need to be educated] must...keep...weak...dependent on other people...AHH! *beats the crap out of a chicken bone and a flower pot*

[Eromenos-Ifrit]

yeah af1 and hq errant has more mnd by 1, but i just didn't see thier benifit over zenith honestly, and currently trying over and over for an HQ synth to use with my other abj in moghouse to put me on par with them.

As for using the +divine, if you're capped in KRT, nothing is IT anymore, thus meaning you're not going to get resisted with capped skill, so that is pointless at that point at lvl 75. Buffing up on MND will allow for more damage. Apollo Staff instead of Light Staff is really all you need to stop any small chance of being resisted at that lvl with capped divine.

And yeah, omg i can't wait for Cleric's Mitts. They seem to be dropping alot more on Ifrit lately too. I've heard of 3 in the past month or so (not really all that bad concidering what Dyn-X can be like) But i don't know if they will actually up damage. It says "enhances Banish Effect" well banish effects the mob by lowering def and att, that's why in standard exp parties it's good to start off with atleast banishII. So knowing how SE is, i bet it enhances that , and not damage, i still need to get with the ones that won it.

[Elcura]

That's very interesting.

[Nachtigal]

I can verify that the "Enhances Banish Potency against the Undead" (they changed it to that from "Enhances Banish Effect" a couple patches ago) does pertain to the def down/piercing weapon defense removal property of the banish line of spells. It adds no additional damage. I tested it out when I got the mitts a couple months ago.