interesting

[NynJa]

BLM power is finite.


BLM runs out of MP, and they are a sitting duck. Melee's however can continue to attack.

[Orfeo]

You can however rotate BLM's out of a spot in the party. Two BLM rotating should give the other enough time to gain back MP, especially if you have a RDM to refresh the one outside.

[Kuai]

BLM on the other hand will ALWAYS land the nuke. If it does 100 or 1,000...it still landed, it still did dmg, and it gave the mob no tp

I didn't know BLM were summoners

[Orfeo]

Don't quite understand...?

If you're talking about the hate thing, if its a long enough fight to matter... temp log <3

[Pali]

Blm nukes aren't TP free, thats the point.

[NynJa]

BLM on the other hand will ALWAYS land the nuke. If it does 100 or 1,000...it still landed, it still did dmg, and it gave the mob no tp

I didn't know BLM were summoners

any and all spells that do numeric damage to a mob (dia, drain aspir, nukes of ANY level, bio) all give the mob 10% TP.



I'm still need to test out the BP's...if they give TP or not.

[Orfeo]

Ah, my friends are idiots in that case.

[layoneil]

I'm still need to test out the BP's...if they give TP or not.

they don't.

[rooster]

I'm still need to test out the BP's...if they give TP or not.

they don't.

BP give no TP at all to any mob.

[Orfeo]

SMN needs to be nerfed.

Commence flame war!

[NynJa]

I'm still need to test out the BP's...if they give TP or not.

they don't.

Then that is hella fucking gay.


so SMN's deal 600-700 dmg average every 50 seconds, with 0 hate, and it gives no TP ?!?

And you talking about how BLM's need to be nerfed ?!?!?

[Sekkite]

They can only do that damage once every minute. This pretty much equates to summoner being overpowered on wyrms and a few other select HNMs.

[layoneil]

I'm still need to test out the BP's...if they give TP or not.

they don't.

Then that is hella fucking gay.


so SMN's deal 600-700 dmg average every 50 seconds, with 0 hate, and it gives no TP ?!?

And you talking about how BLM's need to be nerfed ?!?!?

things going for SMN, they are craptastic in Dynamis, they are craptastic to level 1-69. the shorter the fight the less useful they are (Dynamis Lord). sucks to stop for them when marathoning.

and nerfing BLM and nerfing SMN are two seperate topics, one does not exclude the other. they can always do both .

[Orfeo]

And you talking about how BLM's need to be nerfed ?!?!?

NOBODY SAID THEY SHOULD NERF BLM

[layoneil]

PAGE 2

i don't think BLMs should be nerfed, i think the game would suck if they were.

but it annoys me when BLMs try and reason against it by saying "we don't need to be, we're not overpowered". they're either too stupid to see it or lying, both of which needs to be called out. alot of RNGs were like this too.

[Onizuka]

And you talking about how BLM's need to be nerfed ?!?!?

Err nobody said they should nerf blm......then again u blms have very thick heads

Doesn't matter what you say Orf mages don't respect what melee have to say, they think their all dumb brutes that swing clubs like cave men-.-'

After all this if you blms don't think your job is even a little stronger than other DD jobs.... you need help, case closed

[Keleios]

Interesting thread. I just read it from end to end and was most impressed with Nivlkian's post towards the beginning. Regardless, I feel I have a few things to add towards a discussion to let people make their own judgement. There are two key factors in HNM's that need to be considered:

Merit Points
Without merit points blms have a hard time with sky gods and CoP wyrms. Resist rates are extremely high with 1/4th and 1/8th resists relatively common. Merit Points can quadruple the firepower of a Black Mage against these high difficulty mobs. This is a greater increase due to merits than any other job in the game.

TP
It is the cruel fate of melee in FFXI to give mobs rediculous amounts of TP. Blms are one of the two best damage sources in the game due to their high damage/TP ratio. The other is Summoner. Solidly 1/3rd of my LS consists of these two classes. 12 Black Mages and 8 Summoners.

Case Example (CoP Wyrms):
As far as practicality, my LS only adds in melee for SC's which occur for the purposes of magic bursts. These SC's occur while the wyrm is silenced and after a sleep. Our standard battle group for Tiamat and Jourgaumand consist of 5 blms + rdm, 4 smns, 2 SC melee, and the tank party. We've achieved very fast kill times(75m Tiamat) with this set up with around 30-40 people. We do not leave melee fighting the dragon as it spends most of its time on the ground slept, and we usually do not have the support to heal AoE battered melee.

A list of BLM strengths in HNM fights:
Stun
Damage ( Damage / TP )
Stoneskin ( Hateless AoE management )
Self Cure
Elemental Seal Sleep 2
Debuff Removal ( -na )

HNM Weaknesses:
Very low physical damage resist (can't tank for more then 3 HNM hits)
Slow cast speed ( Rostrum Pumps have a very slight effect )
Weak Enfeebling Magic (Sleep 2 is strong, but blms are C+ Enfeebling)


Xp party notes:
I have not exp'ed in sea as I do not have access yet. {slacks} But I can speak for other situations. I have never broken around 6k per hour in a black mage XP party in KRT. Admittedly I attribute this to a single weak link (1 poor blm out of 5, a substitution for a summoner over a blm, or an impatient bard). I believe that 5 blms with thunder potency merits capped could likely get 10k per hour but that is pure theory as I have never experienced it first hand.

Final Note(Opinion, ignore if desired):
As several people have said before me, I don't think it is reasonable to lower the effectiveness of blms vs. hnms in any significant way as it would increase engagement time significantly. Ironically, I don't think a slight change to blm effectiveness would do anything to balance the classes other then increase that time. On the flip side, I feel rather strongly that SE needs to do something to make melee more competitive against HNM's in the future. Unfortunately, this would require a great increase in their damage/TP ratio (greater then blms) to compensate for the support positions required to keep them alive from AoE spam.

[Desi]

HNM Weaknesses:
Very low physical damage resist (can't tank for more then 3 HNM hits)

i tank nidhogg like a damn champ on blm, hit me for around 180 and i can get 1100 hp and keep blink up. on a few occasions myself and another blm in my ls tanked pretty much the whole fight without dieing. alternating hate between eachother keeping blink up

[Keleios]

True, Nihdogg isn't so bad. I was thinking mostly of the CoP wyrms when I wrote that.

[Crabs]

If no one here thinks BLM should be nerfed than why argue for reasons that they are overpowered?

I can solo KS30 scorps by the way in case anyone wants to cry about that!